Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[SlothRock]

Folks, it's 40% off on amazon now in case you wanted one for a while like I did.

I missed this

 

[Jost Buergi]

Again, even with the internal amps connected, it can get higher than 2 V, more like 3.5 to 4.2 Vrms before clipping.

As we know Amir limited his pre out measurements on the X4800 to 2.0 Volts. Are there any other measurements above 2 V available by now?

Interestingly, in other Denon reviews SINAD reached its highest values around 1.1 V (X3800) or 1.4-1.5 V (X6700, A1H), and drops above. But the X4800 shows a linear SINAD increase up to 2.0 V (AFAI read the graph). So one could think the "best" output or the "good" range is / extends above 2.0 V - but where is it?

P.S. 1: maybe Amir's review of the Marantz Cinema 40 gives us a clue but I don't know whether both units are comparable in this regard.
P.S. 2: my X4800 runs in full preamp mode.

 

[peng]

As we know Amir limited his pre out measurements on the X4800 to 2.0 Volts. Are there any other measurements above 2 V available by now?

Interestingly, in other Denon reviews SINAD reached its highest values around 1.1 V (X3800) or 1.4-1.5 V (X6700, A1H), and drops above. But the X4800 shows a linear SINAD increase up to 2.0 V (AFAI read the graph). So one could think the "best" output or the "good" range is / extends above 2.0 V - but where is it?

P.S. 1: maybe Amir's review of the Marantz Cinema 40 gives us a clue but I don't know whether both units are comparable in this regard.
P.S. 2: my X4800 runs in full preamp mode.

The Denon 4800's should behave nearly the same as the Cinema 40. Even the 3800 should behave very similar, but it did not, and I could imagine Amir might have issues with grounding, resulting in more noise in that test. He had, in the past, tried to solve such connections related noise issues with success, so it is possible, thought not quite likely.

There is also the AVR-X6700H test where Amir measured it to well above 4 V. The 6700, as other Denon recent midrange AVRs also have the almost the same preamp circuitry so they should again, all be capable of 4 V with reasonable SINAD, or at least well pass 3 V. Nothing to worry, even if you don't use preamp mode, as I posted on this many times (but people keep worrying it for no good reasons)!

 

[Steve Dallas]

Just got an email that Dirac ART is now available for the 4800. They are asking $300 as an add-on to my DLBC license. I cannot say I am tempted at that price--especially after DLBC added little to nothing of measurable or audible value in my setup. But to those who want it, it is now available!

 

[IamJF]

$300 is a steal when your system has the right setup so ART can do it's work. It's a complete new level compared to ALL other calibration systems - seems like they need plenty of "educational" work to get transported to the end user what ART really can do. AND what is needed that it works properly. (one sub in the front and small rear speakers will not cut it)

(More and more people get it up and running, it seem to work as adverted. Even without new measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-beta-fw-for-denon-xx800h-avrs.46616/page-47)

 

[mosco]

Install A1 Evo Express. Search for it on YouTube, it's free, quick, and easy. Hey, your system, you'll be amazed.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

$300 is a steal when your system has the right setup so ART can do it's work. It's a complete new level compared to ALL other calibration systems - seems like they need plenty of "educational" work to get transported to the end user what ART really can do. AND what is needed that it works properly. (one sub in the front and small rear speakers will not cut it)

So it makes no sense for a small, near-field 4.1 system in a tiny room?

Okay. Thanks. No need to consult Wallet-kun then. :'D

 

[jbattman1016]

Install A1 Evo Express. Search for it on YouTube, it's free, quick, and easy. Hey, your system, you'll be amazed.

I use express and it is very nice upgrade.

 

[IamJF]

So it makes no sense for a small, near-field 4.1 system in a tiny room?

ART counters the sound from one speaker with the others in the room. When you only have one speaker for bass frequencies ... there is nothing to counter it. So it will not work.
With 4 fullrange speakers it would make sense. Or with a 2nd woofer in the back of the room.

 

[PHD]

Today's FW updated for the 2023 series (X?800H, Cinema) enabled Dirac ART. If you're using A1 EVO. I'd wait to see if there are no new bug reports, as ART introduces significant changes to current DSP algorithms even for Audyssey.

Dirac Live for Denon - Dirac

Dirac Live brings advanced room correction to Denon AV receivers, creating balanced, detailed, and immersive sound for music listening and home theatre.

www.dirac.com

 

[TheKoC]

The Focal Aria 906 he is using have a -3 DB point of 55 Hz, so ART should be able to use them in conjunction with the sub, to some extent. How much of an improvement it is is another question, hard to tell. Depending how siginificant an investment 300 Euros is I would still give it a try.

 

[dlaloum]

So it makes no sense for a small, near-field 4.1 system in a tiny room?

Okay. Thanks. No need to consult Wallet-kun then. :'D

There have been a number of users who have reported over the last couple of years (since ART was released on Storm hardware) on ART on 2.1 setups - and reported very positive results.

It is a paradigm shift in how things are done... and reports have been overwhelmingly positive.

 

[dlaloum]

ART counters the sound from one speaker with the others in the room. When you only have one speaker for bass frequencies ... there is nothing to counter it. So it will not work.
With 4 fullrange speakers it would make sense. Or with a 2nd woofer in the back of the room.

ART works on the 150Hz to 20Hz frequencies... If your base layer speakers have 125Hz to 80Hz - then there are benefits to be gained - even more if they extend further down. - Many bookshelf/desktop speakers have usable response down to 60Hz - and full range speakers (usually floor standers) further down.

Yes maximum benefits acrue to those with full range speakers... but most people who have bookshelf or satelite speakers still stand to benefit as most of those speakers do have usable output down to at least 80Hz

(edit: self correction it is from 150Hz)

 

[PHD]

X4800H is now Roon Ready as well. I do not think ART or even Dirac is worth it. I'm very happy with A1 MJ Custom for movies and A1 EVO Express (pre-amplifier mode 4.2.0) for music. I doubt I could hear any difference with Dirac. Full ART upgrade from Audyssey will cost you $750

 

[fzst]

X4800H is now Roon Ready as well. I do not think ART or even Dirac is worth it. I'm very happy with A1 MJ Custom for movies and A1 EVO Express (pre-amplifier mode 4.2.0) for music.

I never heard A1 EVO (or Audyssey with eq'ued with the desktop app) but I do prefer Dirac over Audyssey (automatic with the smartphone app).

I doubt I could hear any difference with Dirac. Full ART upgrade from Audyssey will cost you $750

It is indeed a lot of money for "only" software - especially considering that a 3800 can be had for not much more than that. On the other hand, considering how much money we spend on new hardware in the hope that we get maybe 5% better sound, 750.- doesn't sound too bad for a software that can drastically alter the sound (we'll just assume to the better).
So impo, IF ART really works - and it looks like it really does - the only caveat is, that it's bound to the device, it would be way better for us consumers (at least in the short term) if we could transfer the licence to other devices but I do understand why they do it this way.

 

[jmdesignz2]

WOW, just finished setting up my X4800H and what a pleasant surprise. Now I have ZERO regrets for selling my X6700H Thanks @amirm for another great review.

BTW, I was getting high noise floor showing up in my miniDSP 2x4 HD INPUT (-84dBFS) and after changing the RCA cable (Emotiva RCA Cable) to a Mogami Gold RCA cable, went from -84dBFS to -98dBFS which literally match @amirm measurements

View attachment 270791

View attachment 270792

Uh oh. Cables make a difference?

 

[EWL5]

Uh oh. Cables make a difference?

These days, I'm not sure I would trust anything from Emotiva.

 

[David_Alexander]

I never heard A1 EVO (or Audyssey with eq'ued with the desktop app) but I do prefer Dirac over Audyssey (automatic with the smartphone app).

It is indeed a lot of money for "only" software - especially considering that a 3800 can be had for not much more than that. On the other hand, considering how much money we spend on new hardware in the hope that we get maybe 5% better sound, 750.- doesn't sound too bad for a software that can drastically alter the sound (we'll just assume to the better).
So impo, IF ART really works - and it looks like it really does - the only caveat is, that it's bound to the device, it would be way better for us consumers (at least in the short term) if we could transfer the licence to other devices but I do understand why they do it this way.

There are a lot of people like me who have gone the Dirac way with the 4800 from the start. So ART isn't that much more of a financial stretch.

My Dirac Live (FB) and DLBC were bought with 30% discounts (BF and introductory offer respectively)

While I'd appreciate a 30% off ART, it would be nice to bring it down to $209.3, I wouldn't feel too aggrieved at shelling out $299 if it does what people say it does. Especially in a living room setting where room treatment is either aesthetically limiting or costly.

 

[kevin1969]

Today's FW updated for the 2023 series (X?800H, Cinema) enabled Dirac ART. If you're using A1 EVO. I'd wait to see if there are no new bug reports, as ART introduces significant changes to current DSP algorithms even for Audyssey.

Dirac Live for Denon - Dirac

Dirac Live brings advanced room correction to Denon AV receivers, creating balanced, detailed, and immersive sound for music listening and home theatre.

www.dirac.com

What version of firmware did you get upgraded to?

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

There have been a number of users who have reported over the last couple of years (since ART was released on Storm hardware) on ART on 2.1 setups - and reported very positive results.

It is a paradigm shift in how things are done... and reports have been overwhelmingly positive.

Interesting. I keep that in mind. Though since it needs Bass Control (right now I only have the normal Dirac RC since I only use one sub), I think it would cost me like 600€ to fully upgrade. We'd be nearing the point where DIrac is more expensive than the AVR itself. :'D

Right now I have a much more annoying problem: since the last Win11 update, I am no longer able to listen to music over HDMI w/o klicks and pops.

My RME is not affected even with low latency settings for VST use.

Utterly ridiculous that a simple OS update can break something as basic as frikkin audio playback. :<