Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[IamJF]

With the actual problems with Denon/Marantz I would not buy one of these amps in the next few month ...

Denon/Marantz - the end is near

Denon/Marantz the end: https://www.channelnews.com.au/former-sound-united-business-could-be-discontinued-next-year-after-falling-revenues-no-buyer-and-losses-claims-new-director/ The Denon X800 and Marantz Cinema series lines may be the last ever as Sound United is about to go belly up...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Mort]

Devices and features are generally getting cheaper, which generally shortens the lifecycle. Obviously it depends on budget but 10 years is a long time to target.

Buy cheaper and think shorter.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Devices and features are generally getting cheaper, which generally shortens the lifecycle. Obviously it depends on budget but 10 years is a long time to target.

Buy cheaper and think shorter.

Eeh, realistically: new HDMI, new standards etc also require a new TV.
Pretty sure most peeps aim for 10yrs with a TV as well.

Also: unless you have a real reason to need 8K, 4K is maxed out. So it stands to reason that even if HDMI 2.2 is released (probably 8K120Hz / 16K), whether it will have features that notably impact your use-case.

Also, I know this may be a lame duck around here, there is also the environmental aspect to consider.
I don't think "Think shorter, buy cheaper" is a good mode these days. I rather buy quality and long lasting products.

This is not meant as: "3800H is crappier and will fail faster than 4800H". When my 250 bucks entry level Yammy can last 10 years, I'm sure a 3800H can as well.

 

[fzst]

Eeh, realistically: new HDMI, new standards etc also require a new TV.
Pretty sure most peeps aim for 10yrs with a TV as well.

Also: unless you have a real reason to need 8K, 4K is maxed out. So it stands to reason that even if HDMI 2.2 is released (probably 8K120Hz / 16K), whether it will have features that notably impact your use-case.

Also, I know this may be a lame duck around here, there is also the environmental aspect to consider.
I don't think "Think shorter, buy cheaper" is a good mode these days. I rather buy quality and long lasting products.

This is not meant as: "3800H is crappier and will fail faster than 4800H". When my 250 bucks entry level Yammy can last 10 years, I'm sure a 3800H can as well.

Fully agree. I'm not a gamer so even the Hdmi standard of my 4400h is actually still enough for my needs. The only thing I'd gain with a X500 AVR is HDR+ and as it stands, not having that standard is not really a concern. And I very much doubt that we will get some new audio format in the next ~10 years - at least not one that I would desire.

So I also rather invest in something substantial that hopefully will last a while.

With the actual problems with Denon/Marantz I would not buy one of these amps in the next few month ...

Denon/Marantz - the end is near

Denon/Marantz the end: https://www.channelnews.com.au/former-sound-united-business-could-be-discontinued-next-year-after-falling-revenues-no-buyer-and-losses-claims-new-director/ The Denon X800 and Marantz Cinema series lines may be the last ever as Sound United is about to go belly up...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes, I'm aware but for me, this is actually the reason to buy one now not to avoid buying. Because what would you recommend buying if D+M is not around anymore? Onky and Pioneer are also in big trouble so it's very uncertain which manufacturers will still be around this time next year. So I rather get one as long as I still can.
The 4800 has been on the market for like 2 years now, so I'm confident that pretty much all issues have been resolved via software update so I'm not really concerned about long term support. Sure having Denon in the background to resolve some potential issues in the future would be nice but as far as I'm concerned not a necessity.

 

[Mort]

Yes, I'm aware but for me, this is actually the reason to buy one now not to avoid buying. Because what would you recommend buying if D+M is not around anymore?

I hope we will see more devices like the MiniDsp flex HT with which one can manage an amped 5.1 LPCM system, assuming you have a compliant TV. With DiracLive but not DLBC.

My holiday project is setting one up. It's not an AVR but I don't really need all the bells and whistles. I just have one video input and will stick with 5.1 for this space.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I'm not a gamer so even the Hdmi standard of my 4400h is actually still enough for my needs.

I am a gamer and reduction in latency is what I look forward the most.
With the DAW software setup it was always a compromise between latency and dropouts, even on the best settings I swing the sword and hear the sound noticeably later.

Will they introduce another sound format?
I doubt it. Streaming doesn't even give you lossless compression and physical media are on their way out.
What would be the point? Also: Atmos is niche as it is.

Well, snagged Dirac Black Friday deal with Coupon for 265€ and 4800H is on it's way.
I'm starting to get excited here. :'D

 

[EWL5]

It's actually not because I don't want to get an AVR with a weaker amp section than I already have. I might consider it if I already had external amps but as it stands, it's not an option for me.

Yeah of course it's not I agree. The law of diminishing returns kick in hard after the 3800. You probably don't get a real "noticeable" upgrade unless you go all the way up to the A10H or Marantz Cinema 30. But since those out of my price range it's either the 4800 or 6800.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the sh*tshow situation surrounding Sound United right now, I'd probably wait another few months with my AVR purchase but if it really comes to the worst, we might not be able to purchase Denon AVRs in a few months...

You do realize that the Cinema 30 is a Denon 3800 clone + $800 MSRP, right (you get a fancy case for the privilege)? At current holiday street prices, the gap is even worse!

Denon AVR-X3800H vs Marantz Cinema 30: Comprehensive Comparison

Compare the Denon AVR-X3800H and Marantz Cinema 30. Discover the differences in features, specs, performance, and find out which A/V receiver is the best for you.

www.zkelectronics.com

People w/a very superficial read of Amir's review don't understand that his "doesn't recommend" has everything to do w/the slight regression in SINAD compared to the prior 3700 model. The earlier 3700 models had AKM DACs w/an inaudible SINAD advantage compared to the TI DACs that came to later 3700 models and the current 3800 and 4800 (the DAC change was prompted by the AKM factory fire).

The currently discounted 3800 is the best value for AVR shoppers right now, even w/o the inclusion of a paid Dirac license!

 

[EWL5]

Well, snagged Dirac Black Friday deal with Coupon for 265€ and 4800H is on it's way.
I'm starting to get excited here. :'D

Congrats and look forward to your feedback!

 

[kyuu]

It just feels scummy that I have to buy the exact same products again and don't even get any discount etc for already being a Dirac customer.

Do you get a discount on a new Denon for already being a Denon customer? I'm not understanding the logic here.

 

[GXAlan]

Yes, I'm aware but for me, this is actually the reason to buy one now not to avoid buying. Because what would you recommend buying if D+M is not around anymore? Onky and Pioneer are also in big trouble so it's very uncertain which manufacturers will still be around this time next year. So I rather get one as long as I still can.
The 4800 has been on the market for like 2 years now, so I'm confident that pretty much all issues have been resolved via software update so I'm not really concerned about long term support. Sure having Denon in the background to resolve some potential issues in the future would be nice but as far as I'm concerned not a necessity.

I think this mindset is very reasonable. The HTP-1 owners are in the same category of “most bugs addressed, hope for the best in the future”.

I would probably go with Yamaha. They are not likely to go out of business even if they pull out of the av market, and people have reported pretty good customer service for discontinued products. YPAO isn’t bad and the ability to provide manual PEQ helps a lot too.

 

[fzst]

YPAO isn’t bad and the ability to provide manual PEQ helps a lot too.

Really? I only heard bad things about it. It seems like it's 2 generations behind even Audyssey let alone Dirac,

 

[fzst]

I think this mindset is very reasonable. The HTP-1 owners are in the same category of “most bugs addressed, hope for the best in the future”.

It is a big gamble of course, if you have only a very minor, easily reparable defect, you probably have to throw away the whole receiver because you cannot get parts for it anymore. Also, even if the AVR runs smoothly right now there is always the possibility that there are problems with a feature product especially via hdmi connection. So maybe, if you're unlucky, the AVR just completely doesn't work with your new TV in 3 years and you have to throw it out because of that.

I still think it's worth the gamble because the Denons are just far and away the best overall AVRs right now with the most features and best value - and I doubt that there will be something equal or better in the near feature if D+M fails especially if Onky/Pioneer also fails, which looks very likely as well. Yeah there might be some new (maybe chinese?) manufacturer chiming in but they would need at least a few years to get a reliable product out...

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Also, even if the AVR runs smoothly right now there is always the possibility that there are problems with a feature product especially via hdmi connection. So maybe, if you're unlucky, the AVR just completely doesn't work with your new TV in 3 years and you have to throw it out because of that.

Given the fact that my 10yr old Yammy works with modern HDMI components, I seriously doubt that.
Even ARC works with my Sony TV, though it's a little temperamental during the handshake.

Replacement parts might be an issue but Denon & spare part inventory won't disappear that quickly.

 

[2therock]

Got my 4800 3/23 and no problems. Had a Pioneer 505 before that and promptly returned it for HDMI issues. I have streamers & BR player all into the AVR and TV out to an LG C3 55".

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Congrats and look forward to your feedback!

Thanks!
Well DHL delivery dude drove lead footed like a madman and the AVR arrived today. oO

I did the initial Dirac calibration and it seemed to have worked. System sounds basically how I am used to from the Studio version of Dirac.
Did a before and after measurement of all 4 channels. Ignore the difference in level, I had to hack around with Voicemeeter to coax REW into measuring the surround channels, so no sensitivity calibration of the UMIK.

So far everything works fine, looking forward to when my second 5m HDMI cable arrives, so I can route the whole shabang through the AVR, right now it only gets sound. :'D

Great to finally be rid of the latency issues.

 

[masterhw]

You do realize that the Cinema 30 is a Denon 3800 clone + $800 MSRP, right

I don't disagree that the 3800 is probably the best deal out there, but this is a tad hyperbolic. The Cinema 30 uses a toroidal transformer, much higher end DACs, and the HDMI board out of the Denon A1H.
Will it make a difference to your ears? probably not. but this is not a good faith characterization of the C30 either.

 

[EWL5]

I don't disagree that the 3800 is probably the best deal out there, but this is a tad hyperbolic. The Cinema 30 uses a toroidal transformer, much higher end DACs, and the HDMI board out of the Denon A1H.
Will it make a difference to your ears? probably not. but this is not a good faith characterization of the C30 either.

I misread the Marantz model. The clone is the Cinema 50 to the 3800.

My bad!

 

[peng]

I don't disagree that the 3800 is probably the best deal out there, but this is a tad hyperbolic. The Cinema 30 uses a toroidal transformer, much higher end DACs, and the HDMI board out of the Denon A1H.
Will it make a difference to your ears? probably not. but this is not a good faith characterization of the C30 either.

Agreed, except the toroidal thing that is overrated... I have had low cost amps that utiluzed toroids, and there are expensive amps that went with non toroids. Depending on the applications, one is not always better than the other.

Still, the Cinema 30 is more comparable to the A10H, but of much higher build quality than the 3800 through 6800.

 

[Brambo67]

Hmmmm.... I doubt the Marantz has higher build quality... It's most certainly not comparable to Denon's A-series. The lay out is different and power amp part build from different components but like I said not higher quality. The difference in price however is shocking. Here in The Netherlands it seems the new price for the Denon is € 2169.00 and for the Marantz € 3.999.00. Only real difference being looks, power amp and power supply.

 

[peng]

Hmmmm.... I doubt the Marantz has higher build quality... It's most certainly not comparable to Denon's A-series. The lay out is different and power amp part build from different components but like I said not higher quality. The difference in price however is shocking. Here in The Netherlands it seems the new price for the Denon is € 2169.00 and for the Marantz € 3.999.00. Only real difference being looks, power amp and power supply.

May be we consider "higher quality" differently. To me, the layout, heatsinks, additional shielding, and the stronger power supply (the Tx VA rating, higher V and uf storage/blocking caps, but not the toroid vs EI core) represents the higher quality I referred to.

As to the price difference, I prefer to base comparisons on their official website list price because dealer sales prices can be very different, so the price difference between the AVC-X6800H and the Cinema 30 is €1,000.00, still hard to justify for a lot of people including me. I actually would consider the X6800H the best valuee AV processor currently available. The difference between the A10H and Cinema 30 is only €200, so depending on sales, the Denon could be a even better deal. That's ignoring preference of their physical appeals, obviously.

Between the AVC-X3800H, X4800H, Cinema 50, 40, the price differences are typically €250-300, much easier to justify that lower amount for those who prefer the Marantz look especially if they actually believe in the benefits (that is, audible..) of things like gold plated connectors, sound master tuned sound, and the silly HDAMs. In North America, the difference in price is often between $800 to >$1,000!!!. No idea why so many here would opt for the Cinema 50 instead of X3800H. Again, I would totally understand why many Europeans would go for the Marantz, for the much more reasonable €250 more.