Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

[RichB]

The three most important differentiators for Dirac are: user experience, custom curves, and calibrated mic support.
If Denon/Marantz improves their app implementation to match, then it will be a contender.

Perhaps, a true PC application is required for advanced calibration but that may be easier to implement than Dirac.
D&M has much better control over Audyssey.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I hope Denon will address that one. -40 (did I remember wrong?) is just so ridiculously bad, even for me, it just doesn't sound right, so I think there is something fishy about it.

Three day old fishy
ASR has performed this test many times. I suspect it was not in the D&M standard test plan.

- Rich

 

[North_Sky]

haha, I thought you wanted better DAC chips? The 4311's DAC chip isn't that great, the current models has the AK4458 that has significantly better specs.

DACs are not the end of the road. Years ago Burr-Brown had sweet sounding DACs in parallel balanced differential mode...two and four per channel. Today some hiend audio designers still use those old BB DACs...1704K. ...There is also the Ring DAC.
And it's more about implementation.

Today some of the best and inexpensive DACs use the ESS top chip.
• http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en...ers/audiophile-dacs/sabre-pro-dacs/es9038pro/

This guy uses two of them ...
▪ https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-205/blu-ray-udp-205-Images.aspx
The last of the Mohicans ... and it measures pretty good too.

Anyway, measurements don't lie, they are internal to what's on the surface (marketing and sales).

Because music matters

 

[Dj7675]

The three most important differentiators for Dirac are: user experience, custom curves, and calibrated mic support.
If Denon/Marantz improves their app implementation to match, then it will be a contender.

Perhaps, a true PC application is required for advanced calibration but that may be easier to implement than Dirac.
D&M has much better control over Audyssey.

- Rich

My name is dj7675 and I support this message...
-PC app, save custom curves, better default curves, support for better mic such as UMIK-1.

 

[North_Sky]

Dirac, may be, but not the DAC chip. If you compare the RX-A2080 and below to the AVR-X6500H and below models, the ESS and AKM DAC chips are virtually tie in specs. There is no evidence that ESS DAC chips are inherently better, ASR's reviews/measurements don't support such a claim either.

I agree that today our toys use those (ESS, AKM, Crystal/Cirrus Logic, Wolfson Microelectronics, TI B-B, ...), and the two first mentioned have some of the best specs in the audio science community.
Here @ ASR I have zero clue as to which brand is best over the other.
From some very brief readings here it appears that ESS might have the slightest of the slightest edge. Could this be reflecting of my brief readings? ...Measurements wise of course, what else ...

 

[peng]

Three day old fishy
ASR has performed this test many times. I suspect it was not in the D&M standard test plan.

- Rich

I believe in logic..

 

[RichB]

I believe in logic..

I do too, that and Occam's Razor.

- Rich

 

[davidc]

Response from Denon's support:

"A recent review was brought to the attention of Denon wherein the reviewer contrasted the performance of two Denon products—the Denon AVR-X3600H and the recently announced AVR-X4700H—against one another. The reviewer offered a variety of bench test results, the subsequent conclusion was not favorable towards the new AVR-X4700H. Denon engineering is currently recreating testing completed by the reviewer in discussion. While there are many unknowns as it pertains to testing criteria, we expect to have our own results available to the public the week of June 29. Before any Denon product is introduced to the market, it undergoes tens of thousands of tests ensuring the absolute best quality product. Denon unequivocally stands by its standards of excellence and strictly adheres to industry best practices. Denon will be in contact with the reviewer to ensure we’re all operating against a set of standardized conditions to guarantee consistency and clarity moving forward. "

This is awesome!! But the statement "While there are many unknowns as it pertains to testing criteria", is puzzling. How about they ask Amir what his testing criteria is? But, thank Denon for taking the interest to reply and investigate the results. I've been a Denon customer for years. About 45 or so...

 

[davidc]

The receiver you're looking for already exists: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...anthem-mrx1120-home-theater-avr-review.11911/

The Anthem MRX1120 measured very well, has excellent room correction and is rumoured to have HDMI 2.1 coming this year.

It does look good. Except the price!

 

[rvsixer]

This is awesome!! But the statement "While there are many unknowns as it pertains to testing criteria", is incredibly stupid. How about they ask Amir? Duh.

I think assuming Denon's direction and intentions (as in they never said they were not going to contact Amir), and making dispariging keyboard insults based on that, has its own flaws.

I'd suggest doing everything we can to keep Denon involved, instead of trying to insult them out of addressing the issue...so we can get somewhere. Being in QA myself I am often faced with misguided and or incorrect customer input.

Please do excuse me if I am way off base, but with only 10 messages here at ASR, its difficult to judge expertise or character. Best make those first impressions count.

 

[spacevector]

Just an initial friendly contact. Nothing more at this point.

I just want to make a quick comment here if I may.

I think Amir and the membership should generally cut the manufacturers a little bit of slack in responding to reviews. This review was published just a week ago and Denon has, through multiple channels, said they are going to look into it. Still we already have posts here saying the company is trash, an embarrassment, they dropped the ball, etc. Likely similar tone being used on other forums as well.

It may be a bit too demanding to expect that they immediately defend themselves. These companies likely only have a small handful of engineers capable of responding to this detailed review. I suspect these guys keep too busy to drop stuff on their plates and respond to negative reviews right away. The ongoing pandemic possibly exacerbates that situation due to illness, layoffs and furloughs.

 

[davidc]

I think assuming Denon's direction and intentions (as in they never said they were not going to contact Amir), and making dispariging keyboard insults based on that, has its own flaws.

I'd suggest doing everything we can to keep Denon involved, instead of trying to insult them out of addressing the issue...so we can get somewhere. Being in QA myself I am often faced with misguided and or incorrect customer input.

Please do excuse me if I am way off base, but with only 10 messages here at ASR, its difficult to judge expertise or character. Best make those first impressions count.

Yes, you're right. I'm just disappointed that it has to come down to this in the first place. I haven't posted to this forum much, but I've been an audiophile for about 50 years. And I have bought many Denon products in the past. I'm the current owner of a 4311ci. I've edited my comments to make them nicer. You have my permission to eliminate the not so nice quote of mine in your reply as well if you'd like.

 

[enormity32]

I'm all for hoping they have a positive answer to all this. They certainly raised the bar with this statement " Before any Denon product is introduced to the market, it undergoes tens of thousands of tests ensuring the absolute best quality product. Denon unequivocally stands by its standards of excellence and strictly adheres to industry best practices". I think we can all agree that if the testing by Denon results in similar measurements...than this unit is far from meeting "standards of excellence", especially when comparing it to their previous generation AVR-X3600. Optimistically awaiting good news!

 

[Angsty]

Ah, finally someone got that! I was losing hope in you all....

@amirm, well? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Fillius]

@amirm, well? Inquiring minds want to know!

Looking backwards because of the backwards step from the X3600 measurements?

 

[Angsty]

Looking backwards because of the backwards step from the X3600 measurements?

I asked about the turned-back panther earlier; just following up.

 

[amirm]

@amirm, well? Inquiring minds want to know!

There is nothing yet to report. We are still trying to setup a call to discuss the matter.

Note that as a professional courtesy to Denon, I won't be outlining everything we discuss. I like them to be free to explain problems, limitations, etc that they may have. So there won't be a blow by blow transcription from me. Hope you understand.

 

[ThePfhor]

I just wanted to say thank you for this fantastic review! I am new here, and was very dissapointed to see that almost a month to the day after I bought the 3600H, the 2020 models were announced, in particular with the 4700H being the one I really wanted. Now I don't feel so bad anymore!

 

[A800]

I think it's like almost everywhere nowadays.
"We will cut costs as much as possible and use planned obsolescence. These idiots will buy it anyway."

 

[preload]

Not sure what the fuss is all about. So, the noise floor is worse than a previous model. It's a Denon. It's a consumer-grade AVR that meets its rated power and has low THD. If your speakers have typical sensitivity, and you're not sticking your ear up to the tweeter, can you really tell the difference?

This is like complaining to Toyota that the latest Camry can only do 0-60 in 9 seconds, whereas last year it was 8.7 seconds.