awesome thank you - really going to use your review to help me decide. I may not even unbox mine until i get your review.
do you think there is much inter-device variability between two of the same model units?
thanks
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Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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awesome thank you - really going to use your review to help me decide. I may not even unbox mine until i get your review.
do you think there is much inter-device variability between two of the same model units?
thanks
Next time you do a Denon, when you measure the pre-out, could you please please connect a load resistance in parallel with the AP, such as a 10 kOhm resistor?
I think that would allow us to see how the Denon would actually perform when connected to an external amp that has a relatively low input impedance of only 10 kOhm.
Thank you in advance.
Corporate PR does not always play by gentlemen rules.
The difference between the two inputs is actually a feature not a bug in this narrative (while seemingly taking "oblique" potshots at you to get ahead of the PR "crisis") where he is evangelizing newer technology as better (HDMI over Toslink, eARC over ARC, etc). Their target audience won't think it is a bug. The brand needs to promote upgrade cycles as part of business models. Not very different from what Apple does.
But listening to this guy for the first time in this video, if I was looking for an evangelist/product spokesman and he was available I would hire him in a heartbeat. Some people can talk about dog poop and make it sound exciting and the best upgrade since sliced bread and that only they have it. This guy is one of those. Not easy to find them for hiring.
Really, are we now praising those "marketing trumpet" types?! And liking videos from youtube pushers? When did I miss that memo?
That guy might be a genius at what he does. But everyone would be better without that kind of 'genius' who can spin trash and design errors into 'features'.
10 kOhm is not low, as far as I see it it's kind of standard (in case one would exist) for solid state equipment.
Agreed, but for use with AVR without the ability of disconnected the power amp, I wouldn't recommend going with input impedance of lower than 10 kohm, a little lower okay but not much lower.
So I guess I would change my request on Amir to hook up a 6k ohm resistor, if the results look bad, then try 8 or 10K. To do just a couple of test shouldn't take much more time.
Most opamps are able to drive 2 kOhm, the NE5532/4 can drive 600 Ohm - both at full output swing (23 Vpp = 8Vrms when fed with +/- 15V). With a much reduced output swing like at the preamp outputs of most AVRs (less than 2 Vrms) even a load of 500 Ohm (150 Ohm for the NE5532/4) should be OK (same current as the standard load at full output swing).
Unfortunately the input impedance of the internal power amp in an AVR is unknown, so if it cannot be disconnected it's better to stay with an external power amp having an input impedance of 10 kOhm or higher - just in case...
Again, I agree, but if you read bigguyca's posts#952 and 956, you will see why I want the two additional tests, just in case the bigguy is right.
OP
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- #989
That is coming but how soon, I can't quite tell.
OP
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- #990
I am near 30 tests already for these AVRs. I honestly can't add more especially if it requires manual work. AP has 600 ohm built-in but that is too low for this use.
I understand and am not asking for it to be added to your standard battery of tests, but just a one off deal to see if Denon AVRs can handle a real world input impedance of 10k or a little less, as presented by an ext power amp connected in parallel with the internal amp, that is without the amp disconnect trick or preamp mode.
Again, just one time only.
Mine can handle the bass. Pretty much anything. 15"PR, 15" woofer, 12" mid-bass in each.
OP
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- #993
I hear you but it may then look like I am trying to find fault with this one product now.
They've got 15"PR, 15" woofer, 12" mid-bass in each. Just bought a 2ch amp with 600W RMS at 4 ohms. So the AVR will run the center and 2 surrounds only.
The only thing they can't is the LP version of Telarc's 1812 Overture which has cannon shots at 6Hz!
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
To reiterate. They can likely handle it, but likely not dish it out properly for the same reasons rccarguy missed in the thread (and North Sky has correctly hinted at too).
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If you could elaborate, that would be cool. The verified specs are 350wRMS power handling, 0.5% THD 22Hz-500Hz with a 1W (98dB SPL) drive, 0.2% above 500Hz, max SPL 128db at about 5% THD. -3dB down at 22Hz at 96db SPL.
Do be honest, I don't know if these specs are what's important or not for what you mean. I don't say them to try to sound cool, just that's what they are...
As a reader, I certainly appreciate the professional risks and stress you take on when you review gear. Expensive gear can break (Devialet), people complain when you like something that isn’t flawless, and people complain when you dislike something that isn’t flawless. As much as I love the articles, once you finish reviewing whatever is in queue, you might want to take a 2 week vacation to rest and destress.
I can only imagine how stressful it is to have Denon obtain different performance than yours. Hopefully, everyone will get to the bottom of this and identify the circumstances that leads to the problem.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #999
Appreciate the sentiments. It is indeed difficult to do these "background projects" while also keeping up with the normal review load. Just spent another 3 hours on this project.
I recall testing that exact same phenomenon in an automotive setting. The next generation of product implemented separate power supply regulation, so that makes me wonder why they wouldn't implement the same here. I guess ABBA had it right: money money money.
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