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Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

amper42

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Seeing as the 3700h seems to be out of stock everywhere with expected delivery next year, and the 4700h being offered for slightly more only. Is there any reason to really wait, the extra ooompfh (?) on the 4700h seems reason enough to opt for it. Both seemed to perform well in the tests here also.

If you are going to connect height speakers I prefer the Denon 4700 over the 3700 as it offers Auro-3D. It also includes a front HDMI port for easy access with REW measurements, a dual line display plus a better remote. I would definitely download the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app on your phone or tablet for advanced EQ capabilities with the Denon 4700. The combination of REW (free) and the Audyssey app ($20) can provide powerful room correction tools not available on most receivers.

The ability to save two different Audyssey presets on the 4700 and create as many as you want on your tablet is an amazing feature. Plus, you can edit Audyssey files on the tablet and wirelessly load them back to the Denon 4700 with ease. Keep your favorite two on the receiver and the rest on the tablet for future use. This is useful if you have different speakers you like to use or ever want to setup a new receiver quickly. Or maybe you just want to A/B different Audyssey configurations. Support for a library of Audyssey saved configurations makes this easy to do.
 

LunaTempesta

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Thank you for the insight.
I assume this Audyssey stuff is available on the 3700h as well? Just that the amount of presets able to save on the receiver itself differs?
I dont see myself having multiple setups in the nearby (or far) away future atm. So just being able to use proper room correction once would be enough. Honestly it's kinda iffy at the moment since I upgraded the TV and noticed too late my old AVR doesn't support HDR passthrough from my Shield TV.
 

peng

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Thank you for the insight.
I assume this Audyssey stuff is available on the 3700h as well? Just that the amount of presets able to save on the receiver itself differs?
I dont see myself having multiple setups in the nearby (or far) away future atm. So just being able to use proper room correction once would be enough. Honestly it's kinda iffy at the moment since I upgraded the TV and noticed too late my old AVR doesn't support HDR passthrough from my Shield TV.

The 3700 and 4700 both have the same versions of Audyssey and they are compatible with the Editor app that you can purchase for $20 (since I checked last time). Using the app to run Audyssey would allow you to save multiple "setups" on the device (android or IOS smart phones or tablets).
 

Klint

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Question regarding pre-out, havent seen this anywhere.
Do we know if the 4700 can put out 3,6V before dropping?
Is that still true?
 

MarcT

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If you have enabled at least the number of channels your source generates, then you are good. Going down in channel count is what causes the problem.
Wait. I run a 5.1 system with a separate amp for the front L/R speakers. My sources are my cable box(5.1 audio) and my Oppo 203 for Blu-ray movies, some of which I guess have 7.1 audio. Are you saying that if I select the 5.1 channel option in the setup and then turn off the front L/R amps, I will be causing extra noise from the 4700?
 

marktrumpet

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New person here!

I'm considering a separate power amp for my 4700. I run a 7.2 setup. I am mostly interested in a separate 3-channel amp for LCR, but am confused if the way to get the most out of the 4700 is to run totally in pre-amp mode so I can switch off the amps and get lower noise or distortion?

I do feel like my speakers could use extra power too. Loud action and loud orchestral music seems to get "flat" or "mushy". I have a feeling I'm losing dynamics. I have SVS Prime bookshelves for LCR (87 db sensitivity), Prime Satellites for surround, and JBL E10 for surround-backs. I sit about 10 feet from the front three in a highly treated room, and crossover at 80 Hz to dual SVS SB-2000s. I would say it's 50/50 movies/music.

So the question is: what will see the most benefit?
  • A high quality 2 or 3 channel (I do a fair amount of two channel listening, mainly classical) like the Parasound A23+ or a Monolith 3-channel,
  • some sort of 7-channel amp, like Emotiva BasX 7, so I CAN run in pre amp mode, but lessor quality to keep the price similar to the above two
Super excited to be a part of this community!

Cheers,
Mark
 

Beershaun

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I would try demoing a more powerful (double the power or more) 3 channel amp and try that out first. I think the primary benefit of outboard amplification is significantly more power and current handling due to the separate power supply. Monolith makes a good 3ch amp as well as buckeye.
 

r0_ger

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Can you do just 3 channels? From what I understand, the setting is either front 2 preout or all 11 preout.
 

dlaloum

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New person here!

I'm considering a separate power amp for my 4700. I run a 7.2 setup. I am mostly interested in a separate 3-channel amp for LCR, but am confused if the way to get the most out of the 4700 is to run totally in pre-amp mode so I can switch off the amps and get lower noise or distortion?

I do feel like my speakers could use extra power too. Loud action and loud orchestral music seems to get "flat" or "mushy". I have a feeling I'm losing dynamics. I have SVS Prime bookshelves for LCR (87 db sensitivity), Prime Satellites for surround, and JBL E10 for surround-backs. I sit about 10 feet from the front three in a highly treated room, and crossover at 80 Hz to dual SVS SB-2000s. I would say it's 50/50 movies/music.

So the question is: what will see the most benefit?
  • A high quality 2 or 3 channel (I do a fair amount of two channel listening, mainly classical) like the Parasound A23+ or a Monolith 3-channel,
  • some sort of 7-channel amp, like Emotiva BasX 7, so I CAN run in pre amp mode, but lessor quality to keep the price similar to the above two
Super excited to be a part of this community!

Cheers,
Mark
Keep in mind that double the power =3db - if you are headroom constrained, you need to aim for an additional 10db most likely... so 4x to 8x the power rating.

Best way to determine whether an amp has ample current capability, is to look for doubling of power from 8 ohm to 4 ohm, and then doubling again from 4 ohm to 2 ohm - amps that do this have heaps of current capacity... but are also rare... the closer an amp gets to this ideal, the more capable its power supply in terms of providing loads of current.

Having said that - your speakers have a nominal impedance of 8 ohm - so current should not be an issue!

The other thing to watch for - is when the X4700 is under load, driving its speakers - it has a measurable impact on the pre-amp performance. (check Amir's review... - in the Review index...)

So the cause of the problem may not in fact be a lack of amp power, but the impact on the power supply of the power amp running hard, then causing issues on the digital circuitry (DAC, DSP, etc..)

If that is the case, the you won't need "more" power, or current, you just need to take some load off the X4700. It's a bit of an unknown whether taking 3 channels off the AVR will do the job, or whether you need to run it as a pure pre-amp.... - and no way of telling until you try! (do you have a spare amp, or a friend who can lend you one?)

The Emotiva BasX7 should be plenty of power for your speakers - and would allow you to turn it into a pure pre-amp... if you later decide to try for height speakers - you can experiment and see whether using the AVR for those impacts on the sound quality and decide from there.

Keeping in mind that surrounds and height speakers do a lot less work, and therefore need a lot less power/current.

Hope that helps!
 

marktrumpet

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It's a bit of an unknown whether taking 3 channels off the AVR will do the job, or whether you need to run it as a pure pre-amp.... - and no way of telling until you try! (do you have a spare amp, or a friend who can lend you one?)

The Emotiva BasX7 should be plenty of power for your speakers - and would allow you to turn it into a pure pre-amp...
Thanks for your thoughts! I don't have an amp I can try, but I think I may just go ahead and order an BasX A7 and use the 30-day window to evaluate how the unit does in pre-amp mode.
 

amper42

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I would not buy the BasX A7. It's specs are worse than the Denon 4700. I would use the internal 4700 amps. If you need more power buy external amps with SINAD at or above 95dB. By going this route, should you decide to go full pre-out mode you can maintain the higher specs offered by the 4700 in full pre-out mode.

Others have bought BasX A7 and it's a road toward mediocrity with the 4700. The BasX won't make much difference. However, when I went with the Monolith 7x200 or a Buckeye Amps 6 channel NC252MP with a 2 channel NC502MP for fronts in full pre-out mode the sound is crisper and it never runs out of power even with big explosive action scenes.



The 4700 has nice pre-out specs so why pair it with external amps that can't reach 95dB SINAD? :D

Denon AVR-X4700H 8K Home Theater Receiver AVR Dolby Atmos Surround HDMI Audio Measurements.png
 

dlaloum

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The proposed external amp solution also needs to be in the right price bracket...
 

amper42

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The proposed external amp solution also needs to be in the right price bracket...

Understood, that's why I suggested using the Denon internal amps. A few people have bought BasX and ended up going with higher SINAD amps later. The sound is only as good as the weakest link. Maybe BasX will work for you? But it's not what I would consider ideal for showing off the 4700 pre-out function.

You can view BasX measurements here. Happy hunting!
 

dlaloum

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Understood, that's why I suggested using the Denon internal amps. A few people have bought BasX and ended up going with higher SINAD amps later. The sound is only as good as the weakest link. Maybe BasX will work for you? But it's not what I would consider ideal for showing off the 4700 pre-out function.

You can view BasX measurements here. Happy hunting!
Although SINAD is an important criteria, I don't consider it a critical decision point.

There are too many excellent sounding amp alternatives that rank relatively poor to mid in the SINAD stakes.

An amp that ranks well in SINAD will sound bad when driven beyond it's optimum performance zone... if it runs out of current is the prime example...

For AVR's it doesn't matter what the amps are rated at - typically, the power supply is what runs out of oomph... and once that happens, your 120W /ch amp ends up as a 70w/ch amp... and if your speakers have certain frequencies at which the crossovers result in a low impedance load - then your 70w effective into 8 ohm could end up collapsing down to 20 or 30w.... Meanwhile, drops on the power rails will result in decreased performance on the DAC's and DSP.... - that was the measured result on the X3700/X4700.

I have experienced lower ranked "pro" class D power amps, outperforming highly regarded audiophile "analogue" amps - simply due to these kinds of limitations. - I found that when I replaced my speakers... the Crown XLS pro amps, started out performing my Quad current dumping (feed forward... similar concept to the THX AAA in the Benchmark AHD2) amps. This was not an expected outcome! - But it was confirmed over and over in actual auditioning. The Quad 909's are rated at 108db S/N (I have not seen SINAD measured...) - the Crowns at 105db S/N (SINAD measured here by Amir in the 70's) - take an amp outside of its optimal performance envelope, and the specifications become meaningless.

A few years back I would have recommended the Crown XLS, (esp. used) as being ideal at this price bracket - but prices on these have doubled over the last 10 years - they are still good value, but you can probably get equivalent value elsewhere now.
 

K man

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As I couldn't find anything through the search, I'm trying to ask it here.

Did @amirm at any point measure the ADC performance on the Denon receivers?

Being a fairly common scenario that people connect CD players, media players, etc. into analog RCA I believe it would be valuable to know the analog in -> ADC -> DAC -> pre-out performance.
 

dlaloum

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As I couldn't find anything through the search, I'm trying to ask it here.

Did @amirm at any point measure the ADC performance on the Denon receivers?

Being a fairly common scenario that people connect CD players, media players, etc. into analog RCA I believe it would be valuable to know the analog in -> ADC -> DAC -> pre-out performance.
I don't think so ...

There were CD input tests using the analogue input - but they were done in "Pure Direct" - so no ADC...

I re-scanned through the review, and I don't think similar tests were done with ADC in the loop.
 

K man

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I don't think so ...

There were CD input tests using the analogue input - but they were done in "Pure Direct" - so no ADC...

I re-scanned through the review, and I don't think similar tests were done with ADC in the loop.
That looks like an oversight to me. Considering how common that usage scenario is I believe this would be a relevant metric. Measuring it in every review would also help push the manufacturers to put in better ADC chip, which would give more freedom in connected equipment.

If the ADCs were good enough there would be less constraints having to always go digital in whenever you like to utilize Audyssey, channel upmixing, tone control, etc.
 
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