Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[Rottmannash]

That looks like an oversight to me. Considering how common that usage scenario is I believe this would be a relevant metric. Measuring it in every review would also help push the manufacturers to put in better ADC chip, which would give more freedom in connected equipment.

If the ADCs were good enough there would be less constraints having to always go digital in whenever you like to utilize Audyssey, channel upmixing, tone control, etc.

I imagine many will use Pure Direct mode for 2 ch listening, bypassing the ADC but obviously some will want to use DSP. Good point though re: forcing manufacturers to improve the ADC's in their AVR's.

 

[K man]

I imagine many will use Pure Direct mode for 2 ch listening, bypassing the ADC but obviously some will want to use DSP.

Many want to continue using Audyssey and Dynamic EQ also when using something connected to analog input.

Good point though re: forcing manufacturers to improve the ADC's in their AVR's.

Amir often speak about good engineering practice.

From what I've been able to find, more recent models of Denon receivers uses AK5358 ADC (although I have no idea if that still is the case after the recent change of main DAC). The specs of this ADC is quite a bit lower than of the main DAC (i.e. AK4458). That doesn't make sense. The ADC should be equally good or better than the DAC, to be able to preserve the sound quality.

If the ADC was as good or better than the DAC there would be little loss in using analog in compared to digital in.

 

[Aron3000]

Not necessarily. I paid £699/$862 for an IOTAVX 7.1 4K AVP (pic below). It is light on features - which I wanted, but it has all the basics - including center channel sound, basic room correction DSP, and XLR output. It works perfectly for me, which is good, because it cost a lot to ship it here to the mountains of Western Panama from the UK via Miami, USA, and would not be easy to get service or resell it. It wasn't festooned with "HiRes Audio" and other stickers when I got it, which is also good, because I like the "as simple as possible, but no simpler" approach. I get up-mixed center channel sound that I can defeat when it affects really good stereo recordings by simply turning off my center channel amplifier with its front switch. I always seem to be a bit off the mainstream audio consumer track, but yet again in a long lifetime in the audio hobby, managed to assemble a system that suits me perfectly considering my room, budget and fairly wide-ranging taste in music. I think this is as close to a competent design with a minimalist approach that one can find in the AVP arena.

The Denon looks good, but would be waaaay overkill for me. However, based on this ASR review and thread, I would not hesitate to recommend it highly for non-audiophile/videophile friends looking for a modern, good-performing "all-in-one" AVR and could afford it.

Unfortunately, for many retired expats like me living in a small rental house or apartment on an even more limited pension then mine, anything more than a Smart TV with an Amazon Firestick is out of reach. Most of my friends and acquaintances don't even have sound bars, much less discrete external speakers and subwoofers for their TV's. However, a couple of well-heeled expat retirees whom I know actually have full-on dedicated home theater rooms with videophile multichannel sound.

At this time in the midst of the global Covid-19 pandemic, it is a miracle that we have high-speed internet and high-res streaming video from around the world even in remote corners of developing nations like Panama. Video via the internet is our "window to the world". Life here in Boquete during the restrictions of a pandemic would be quite different without it.

View attachment 71732

How is the IOTA compared to the Denon 4700 or 3700 or and mid tear receiver in terms of sound quality.

 

[Aron3000]

I live in Panama - two-stage shipping and US import duty make that impractical. When some who lives in the U.S. buys one, perhaps shipping to Amir for testing would be possible.

IOTAVX is a small operation in the U.K. with manufacturing in China. Ian, the owner, is not good about answering pre-sale inquiries via email. That is unfortunate, because he is probably losing some sales because of his non-responsiveness. Too bad. I think it is a great product. I use the XLR connections and they work perfectly. XLR is a common audio connector, especially in the pro-audio world. Except for the recent issue with working but incorrect XLR connection wiring with some Hypex amps, I have not seen a problem worth spending time on. The IOTAVX website and manual only mention "balanced XLR" and do not mention "differential" wiring. However, my understanding is that noise and hum rejection - the primary reason for using XLR rather than RCA - is equally good with true differential or impedance-balanced designs.

There is a review thread and another member thread about IOTAVX amplification here at ASR, and those threads would be a better place to continue the discussion of this non-Denon topic.

How does the ioata pre pro compared to denon avrs.

 

[Xulonn]

How does the iota pre pro compared to denon avrs.

Sorry, but I have no idea. The IOTAVX AVX1 is my first and only AVP.

The IOTAVX was my choice because it has XLR output, DSP room correction, only 7.1 channels - the lowest channel count I could find at the time with that feature set. Everything else had more unneeded channels, and now IOTAVX has replaced it with a 17.1 channel unit that is twice as expensive. The older AVP I have looks identical to an earlier Nakamichi model. It is fairly compact, and although no longer available, it had the the best price for the feature set I wanted when I purchased it.

I use only 3.0 channels. I wanted a center channel to help with audibility of dialog and to add some "fullness" to video/movie soundtracks. The two additional 5.25" mid/woofers of the center channel can move more air, effectively doubling the radiating area, particularly for bass, which is much improved. A center channel can make the sound more "immersive", even without the rear speakers that would make mine a 5.0 system. I am very pleased with the improved video/movie soundtrack presentation of my current system.

The IOTAVX AVP1 provides for a "blended" center channel with its "All Stereo" mode, but I don't use it for two-channel music. Most music tracks then sound "unnatural" and imaging/soundstage are messed up, and that offsets the advantage of better bass response.

I may add a small subwoofer to make it 3.1 system, but my room is very small, and my big recliner chair backs up against the wall, leaving the back of my head less than a foot from the wall behind me. Adding rear channels to make mine a 5.0 system doesn't seem practical to me, since in my tiny room, the rear speakers would be to my side, not behind me.

 

[Aron3000]

Sorry, but I have no idea. The IOTAVX AVX1 is my first and only AVP.

The IOTAVX was my choice because it has XLR output, DSP room correction, only 7.1 channels - the lowest channel count I could find at the time with that feature set. Everything else had more unneeded channels, and now IOTAVX has replaced it with a 17.1 channel unit that is twice as expensive. The older AVP I have looks identical to an earlier Nakamichi model. It is fairly compact, and although no longer available, it had the the best price for the feature set I wanted when I purchased it.

I use only 3.0 channels. I wanted a center channel to help with audibility of dialog and to add some "fullness" to video/movie soundtracks. The two additional 5.25" mid/woofers of the center channel can move more air, effectively doubling the radiating area, particularly for bass, which is much improved. A center channel can make the sound more "immersive", even without the rear speakers that would make mine a 5.0 system. I am very pleased with the improved video/movie soundtrack presentation of my current system.

The IOTAVX AVP1 provides for a "blended" center channel with its "All Stereo" mode, but I don't use it for two-channel music. Most music tracks then sound "unnatural" and imaging/soundstage are messed up, and that offsets the advantage of better bass response.

I may add a small subwoofer to make it 3.1 system, but my room is very small, and my big recliner chair backs up against the wall, leaving the back of my head less than a foot from the wall behind me. Adding rear channels to make mine a 5.0 system doesn't seem practical to me, since in my tiny room, the rear speakers would be to my side, not behind me.

Ok, so overall you are happy with your IOTA I guess. Because I am interested in their 17 channel processor along with their 30 kg 7 channel power amp.

 

[Labradar]

I'm new to the AV game and have been reading reviews like crazy.

I was able to find the 4700 for $1900 and am >.< that close to buying it.

Is this unit still worth the money or has something else better come out that supplants it? This is in the perfect spot budget-wise, I'm not really wanting to jump up into the $2500-$3000+ range.

 

[radix]

I'm new to the AV game and have been reading reviews like crazy.

I was able to find the 4700 for $1900 and am >.< that close to buying it.

Is this unit still worth the money or has something else better come out that supplants it? This is in the perfect spot budget-wise, I'm not really wanting to jump up into the $2500-$3000+ range.

There is a thread comparing the Denon line. I think the 4700 is a great choice. You could consider the 3700 -- it has a little less amp power and I think is a small bit lower on performance metrics, but I doubt you'd hear the difference unless you need the extra 20 watts of power.

Choosing between the Denon X8500H, X6700H, X4700H and X3700H (Updated)

The power differences between the X8500H, X6700H, X4700H and X3700H are about 1dB. If the requirement is for an AVR with only the internal amplifiers used, and with the number of power amplifiers that the X3700H or X4700H provide, then the lower price products provide a little cleaner power with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Aron3000]

Not necessarily. I paid £699/$862 for an IOTAVX 7.1 4K AVP (pic below). It is light on features - which I wanted, but it has all the basics - including center channel sound, basic room correction DSP, and XLR output. It works perfectly for me, which is good, because it cost a lot to ship it here to the mountains of Western Panama from the UK via Miami, USA, and would not be easy to get service or resell it. It wasn't festooned with "HiRes Audio" and other stickers when I got it, which is also good, because I like the "as simple as possible, but no simpler" approach. I get up-mixed center channel sound that I can defeat when it affects really good stereo recordings by simply turning off my center channel amplifier with its front switch. I always seem to be a bit off the mainstream audio consumer track, but yet again in a long lifetime in the audio hobby, managed to assemble a system that suits me perfectly considering my room, budget and fairly wide-ranging taste in music. I think this is as close to a competent design with a minimalist approach that one can find in the AVP arena.

The Denon looks good, but would be waaaay overkill for me. However, based on this ASR review and thread, I would not hesitate to recommend it highly for non-audiophile/videophile friends looking for a modern, good-performing "all-in-one" AVR and could afford it.

Unfortunately, for many retired expats like me living in a small rental house or apartment on an even more limited pension then mine, anything more than a Smart TV with an Amazon Firestick is out of reach. Most of my friends and acquaintances don't even have sound bars, much less discrete external speakers and subwoofers for their TV's. However, a couple of well-heeled expat retirees whom I know actually have full-on dedicated home theater rooms with videophile multichannel sound.

At this time in the midst of the global Covid-19 pandemic, it is a miracle that we have high-speed internet and high-res streaming video from around the world even in remote corners of developing nations like Panama. Video via the internet is our "window to the world". Life here in Boquete during the restrictions of a pandemic would be quite different without it.

View attachment 71732

Hi there, so are you still happy with your ioata and how does it compare with Denon 4700 on pre pro mode. I am thinking of getting ioatavx avx17

 

[Xulonn]

Hi there, so are you still happy with your IOTAVX and how does it compare with Denon 4700 on pre pro mode. I am thinking of getting ioatavx avx17

Yes, in retrospect, the IOTAVX was the best choice for me - it works perfectly for what I wanted to do with it. I have no actual experience with other brands, so I cannot help you with a comparison. Select a unit with the features and ergonomics that you like, and buy it from a vendor who allows returns. i have owned Denon components in the past and liked them. And apparently Denon still has a good reputation.

"Minimalist" AVP's are rare, and the only ones I can find now are generic Chinese units with RCA audio out like the one below that I came across on AliExpress. All of the AVR/AVP's from mainstream consumer A/V electronics companies are now high-channel count units with lots of features I do not want, and none cost less than $1,000USD. Used AVRAVPs often have outdated HDMI versions.

 

[Aron3000]

Hi there, for movies how does the Denon 4700 in pre pro mode compare to Arcams, Anthems, Nads and Marantz Av 7706.

 

[peng]

Hi there, for movies how does the Denon 4700 in pre pro mode compare to Arcams, Anthems, Nads and Marantz Av 7706.

I find it very difficult if even possible to compare two AVRs under exactly the same conditions even if I have two simultaneously (and I did for 3 years). You can imagine the time it would take to switch between them and we all know comparing by memory is very unreliable. All I can tell you is that I enjoy my AVR-X4400H much more so than I did the Marantz AV8801. The X4700H is two models before the X4700H but the volume and DAC chips are the same and the power amp sections seem to be the same. I wouldn't say it was a sound quality difference thing, but much more to do with the new and improved features, plus the Denon is definitely quieter. With the Marantz, during a quiet scene when the room is quiet, I could hear the noise if I had the volume cranked up to say, -10, though I rarely had it that high.

My experience with Arcam's were in dealer's show room only but I doubt they would "sound" much different in direct mode. If I heard a better difference I would have bought one. Anthem's, no thanks if I have choice, though I would make an exception for the AVM70 because of the excellent (relatively) measurements. If by year end Denon/Marantz don't come up with something better, then I would probably consider the AVM70 when they go on clearance sale.

 

[Aron3000]

I find it very difficult if even possible to compare two AVRs under exactly the same conditions even if I have two simultaneously (and I did for 3 years). You can imagine the time it would take to switch between them and we all know comparing by memory is very unreliable. All I can tell you is that I enjoy my AVR-X4400H much more so than I did the Marantz AV8801. The X4700H is two models before the X4700H but the volume and DAC chips are the same and the power amp sections seem to be the same. I wouldn't say it was a sound quality difference thing, but much more to do with the new and improved features, plus the Denon is definitely quieter. With the Marantz, during a quiet scene when the room is quiet, I could hear the noise if I had the volume cranked up to say, -10, though I rarely had it that high.

My experience with Arcam's were in dealer's show room only but I doubt they would "sound" much different in direct mode. If I heard a better difference I would have bought one. Anthem's, no thanks if I have choice, though I would make an exception for the AVM70 because of the excellent (relatively) measurements. If by year end Denon/Marantz don't come up with something better, then I would probably consider the AVM70 when they go on clearance sale.

Wow, so the Denon 4700 is that good that on pre amp mode it can match the sound quality of the Marantz AV8801.

 

[ZgSTar]

Guys, I installed my x4700 a couple of days ago and I can't get a decent output level from Sub1 and Sub2.

I have tried now with 3 different amplifiers: a purify et400 (Audiophonics) an AHB2 and a Thomann t.amp 800. All of them should have enough power to drive the could of Dynaudio SUB RCC I have but when I test the signals in Audyssey I get to barely 65dbs.

All 3 amplifiers drive the subwoofers properly when I connect another source directly via XLR, I used for example my RME ADI DAC with a bass-heavy song (Angel, massive attack) and yes I could rock the boat.

This drives me to the conclusion that the output level of Sub1 and Sub2 out of the x4700 are weak in terms of VRMS out, weaker than other channels in pre-out because I drive other channels properly with the same amplifiers and cables. Of course, I put (where possible) the gain to the highest on all amplifiers. One thing to note is that I am using RCA to XLR cables to connect them.

Unless I am missing something?
I've tried everything by now but I can't get a good enough sound level.

Did anyone have a similar setup where you are driving a passive subwoofer via an external amplifier? Did you experience anything like what is happening to me?

Thank you for your help.
Z.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Guys, I installed my x4700 a couple of days ago and I can't get a decent output level from Sub1 and Sub2.

I have tried now with 3 different amplifiers: a purify et400 (Audiophonics) an AHB2 and a Thomann t.amp 800. All of them should have enough power to drive the could of Dynaudio SUB RCC I have but when I test the signals in Audyssey I get to barely 65dbs.

All 3 amplifiers drive the subwoofers properly when I connect another source directly via XLR, I used for example my RME ADI DAC with a bass-heavy song (Angel, massive attack) and yes I could rock the boat.

This drives me to the conclusion that the output level of Sub1 and Sub2 out of the x4700 are weak in terms of VRMS out, weaker than other channels in pre-out because I drive other channels properly with the same amplifiers and cables. Of course, I put (where possible) the gain to the highest on all amplifiers. One thing to note is that I am using RCA to XLR cables to connect them.

Unless I am missing something?
I've tried everything by now but I can't get a good enough sound level.

Did anyone have a similar setup where you are driving a passive subwoofer via an external amplifier? Did you experience anything like what is happening to me?

Thank you for your help.
Z.

Can you try RCA to RCA?

 

[ZgSTar]

Can you try RCA to RCA?

All the amps I have are xlr unfortunately. The Thoman has 6.3 mono jack in which is going to be my next attempt. What puzzles me is that front channels via pre out are loud with the same amps. ‍

 

[MikeS54]

Sorry if this has been asked before but I have the Denon x4700 unit and bought an Emotiva BasX A-3. I have connected the Pre-amp outs from the Denon to the Emotiva. Sounds pretty good.

Question - Is there any setting or adjustment I need to make on the Denon? I didn't really see an option where you can disable the amps manually. Looks like it was either all amps off or none. So I assume I just connect the Emotiva, run the audyssey setup again and roll with it.

Newb here. Thanks in advance.

 

[ZgSTar]

All the amps I have are xlr unfortunately. The Thoman has 6.3 mono jack in which is going to be my next attempt. What puzzles me is that front channels via pre out are loud with the same amps. ‍

In case anybody has the same problem, I found two different solutions. the first one is to ignore the Audissey volume adjustment at the beginning and let it do his tuning, this way the DSP will higher the exit level to match the rest of the speakers. Dirty but works. The second solution is cleaner and is to use a buffer or rca/xlr DI box in my case I had very good results with Radial J+4.

 

[oupee]

Guys, I installed my x4700 a couple of days ago and I can't get a decent output level from Sub1 and Sub2.

I have tried now with 3 different amplifiers: a purify et400 (Audiophonics) an AHB2 and a Thomann t.amp 800. All of them should have enough power to drive the could of Dynaudio SUB RCC I have but when I test the signals in Audyssey I get to barely 65dbs.

All 3 amplifiers drive the subwoofers properly when I connect another source directly via XLR, I used for example my RME ADI DAC with a bass-heavy song (Angel, massive attack) and yes I could rock the boat.

This drives me to the conclusion that the output level of Sub1 and Sub2 out of the x4700 are weak in terms of VRMS out, weaker than other channels in pre-out because I drive other channels properly with the same amplifiers and cables. Of course, I put (where possible) the gain to the highest on all amplifiers. One thing to note is that I am using RCA to XLR cables to connect them.

Unless I am missing something?
I've tried everything by now but I can't get a good enough sound level.

Did anyone have a similar setup where you are driving a passive subwoofer via an external amplifier? Did you experience anything like what is happening to me?

Thank you for your help.
Z.

I had the 4700 for ten days and returned it because I had the same problem with the subwoofer on the RCA connection.

edit:

Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

I do not think so. The funny thing is that the SR60613 had better stereo and cinema sound. I'm sorry I sold it, this experience was expensive. When I had 4700, I thought the subwoofer broke. With 8015, I have the bass back in the cinema and much more. i am using google translator

audiosciencereview.com

Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

I do not think so. The funny thing is that the SR60613 had better stereo and cinema sound. I'm sorry I sold it, this experience was expensive. When I had 4700, I thought the subwoofer broke. With 8015, I have the bass back in the cinema and much more. i am using google translator

audiosciencereview.com

Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

I do not think so. The funny thing is that the SR60613 had better stereo and cinema sound. I'm sorry I sold it, this experience was expensive. When I had 4700, I thought the subwoofer broke. With 8015, I have the bass back in the cinema and much more. i am using google translator

audiosciencereview.com

 

[KMO]

The subwoofer preout on an AVR is typically 15dB down on other channels, to provide extra headroom for LFE and bass redirection. This can be adjusted somewhat with the level trims, but even at +12dB trim - the highest adjustment - it may not be as high as the other channels.

The subwoofer amplifier is expected to have at least 10dB more gain than the amplifiers on other channels. If you're using a standard amp like a Purifi 1ET400A to drive a passive subwoofer (why?) it probably won't have enough gain. You would want about +44dB to match the internal +29dB main channel amps, but could maybe get away with a bit less. A typical 26dB power amp would be nowhere near enough.

To be clear, when I say "15dB down", I mean for a given target output level. A -20dBFS tone on a main channel would be 85dB SPL. When redirected to the subwoofer, it's equivalent to -30dBFS on LFE, and then there's another 5dB or so fudge.

I have tried now with 3 different amplifiers: a purify et400 (Audiophonics) an AHB2 and a Thomann t.amp 800. All of them should have enough power to drive the could of Dynaudio SUB RCC I have but when I test the signals in Audyssey I get to barely 65dbs.

I'm not sure they have enough power - 500W or more is more typical for a subwoofer. Although if you're only doing music, not films with LFE, then maybe you're fine?

I looked up the Audio Control RS500 and RS1000, which seem to be suggested amps for the DynAudio sub, and their manual says they have 36dB gain - a tad on the low side for the Denon's RCA output, but workable.