Denon AVR-X3900H & PURIFI 1ET6525SA a good idea?

[Tanquen]

I'm on my 4th AVR. I started with a AVR-5805 that died outside of warranty and had to have it serviced. Had an Onkyo that died outside of warranty but they serviced it because there was a known issue with the HDMI board. I currently have the AVR-X6500H that is also now dying. Randomly has the flashing red light and protect DC error in the service menu.

I had even got one of AC Infinity fans that's been on it since I got the X6500H. It's a large open shelf but it did get several hours of use every night. I still think it should last longer. My mom has a Radioshack all in one stereo with a couple of speakers that's 40+ years old.

I could ship off the X6500H and possibly get it fixed or possibly just pay several hundred for scuffs and scratches and to have stil have the same intermittent issue. The only place close to where I live is not Denon certified and only does board swaps.

With the higher end units taking longer and longer to come out with a new version and even the X3900H still hasn't fixed QMS or the PC audio drop outs. I'm not sure if I want to wait a year for the X6900H that will likely still have the same HDMI chipset bugs.

As the X6500H is now dying the thought was to go with the X3900H, even though I won't be able to use it to play games form the PC anymore it would be a smaller hit to the wallet when it dies a year or two of warranty.

I'd only be losing one channel as currently I have a 6.2.4 setup. I thougt I'd get a decent quality 3 channel amp and not have to worry about the lower amp rating or the lower number of amps in the lower end units.

It's a small room and I do not play stuff very loud. I liked the idea of the PURIFI 1ET6525SA running cooler and providing more power for left center and right speakers. Then leaving the rest of the surrounds up to the X3900H.

 

[Ruediger]

Why would you not be able to use the 3900H for games? I think it is equipped for that.

A poweramp sure makes it run cooler. But the effect is gradual with some channels going to pre-out and amps still on. This is afaik again a all-or-nothing setting, unlike the 4x00H or higher.

The Purifi is a great amp with a lot of power. It doesn't sound like you need that. Unless you simply want that Purifi for it's sound quality level. It's going to cost as much as the AVR, roughly. For that budget it's possible to get simple poweramps to take over all channels.

For a small room I would just use the AVR though.

 

[Tanquen]

Why would you not be able to use the 3900H for games? I think it is equipped for that.

Something to do with the latest HDMI chipset that they're using. It breaks QMS support and it also breaks something in the HDMI audio handshake with Windows PC GPUs. I tried upgrading to the X6800H when it was released, support was telling me that my cables were bad and various other things. In the end support wanted me to send the brand new X6800H in for service. I opted to simply return it. Swapping the X6500H back in fixed the random audio dropouts and the black screen that you couldn't get out of until you power cycled the AVR.

I realize a separate amp cost more initially but the thought was that I'd be able to get a X3900H now and then I'd be able to purchase cheaper AVR's when I needed and not have to worry about getting the very expensive ones that have the number of built in amps that I want. My current understanding is that even when or if the X6900H comes out it's going to have the same HDMI chipset and bugs.

 

[Ruediger]

Can't speak to the HDMI problems. Last time I had a PC (NUC) as media player was with Yamaha AVRs. That was OK. The consoles from PS2 to PS5 are with Yamaha AVRs here too. Denon only has media players as input. But I noticed the possible detection of game content in the HDMI settings.

Wouldn't the X3x00H have enough channels anyway so you don't have to downscale anything?

And if you want to save, maybe look to get one of the X3800H before they are gone. They were heavily discounted to a bit under 1000 € prior to the X3900H becoming available. Went up a little bit afterwards. Still a very good offer.

Of course many are looking at the X3900H in terms of the new DAC and much improved sinad. Some measurements alreayd in the forum. Personally if I wanted to have the Purifi doing LCR and the Denon in front of it as a pre-amp, I would def. look at the X3900H when buying now. Makes no sense to me to pick such a superb amp but then shy away from the (possibly) improved pre-amp to save a fraction of the money. To save with this combination is easy: X3800H and some cheap(er) poweramps, more channels, maybe put the Denon in pre-amp mode only.

 

[Tanquen]

A X3x00H has nine amps so I'd only be missing out on one channel but I've already got 10 speakers mounted. I just thought I'd get a nice 3-channel amp to take over the heavy lifting for LCR because I'd also be losing out on some wattage moving from a 6000 series. The thought was also that could try to get a reasonably sized device for three channels versus a bunch of amps to completely bypass all the internal AVR amps. It's too bad you can't shut off specifically the ones you're not using in the 3000 series, but at least all of its theoretical power would be available for the remaining surrounds. Probably overkill but it was just the thought versus not having an AVR at all for the next year or so. I guess I could just get the X3900H and miss out on one channel for a while. But I also wanted to try Dirac ART and that license would be tied to the AVR. I don't know.

 

[Ruediger]

Good point about ART. I thought that is with the HEOS account. Unsure about how it works in detail, if it's bound to the AVR.

With 10 channels excl. subs it makes sense to offload LR or LCR to a poweramp. Available channels and the hardest working ones with an efficient external amp.

I would like an AVR from the higher ranks too, but my reasons not to buy those are similar. The X3x00H is the sweetspot for me. If I had the space and the ambition to use more channels than the 11.4 it can do, I would also use the budget for a bigger AVR.

 

[HipHopPotatoMouse]

I have been happy with eARC and CEC from the TV to avr. Once avr is configured, I only need the avr remote once in a blue moon. LG TV has been working well as the input selector and no handshake issues with my pc. Also use a Buckeye purifi for lcr.

I was considering denon and gemini was saying x800 onwards denon had the ability to individually shut down amps. May be worth digging into.

 

[Tanquen]

I have been happy with eARC and CEC from the TV to avr. Once avr is configured, I only need the avr remote once in a blue moon. LG TV has been working well as the input selector and no handshake issues with my pc. Also use a Buckeye purifi for lcr.

I was considering denon and gemini was saying x800 onwards denon had the ability to individually shut down amps. May be worth digging into.

Which AVR are you using? My 6500 has no issues but the the 6800 had nothing but issues connecting to the PC over eARC. Constantly dropping audio randomly. I did see something online somewhere where folks had gotten some kind of software to force their PCs GPU audio to be always on or something. So the newer AVRs would stop dropping the audio.

 

[HipHopPotatoMouse]

My receiver is Marantz SR7012 so Denon x4400h equivalent.

With my old GPU (Nvidia 3070) I had zero issues, but when I switched to AMD 9070 XT, I used to get some pops while watching videos on mpv.net. After a gemini led PC tweaking session, it got resolved. I did add this GPU awake thing (below) to my stream deck automation but it didn't resolve the issue until I tweaked the mpv.net config, so I think the "fix" was attributable to config changes alone.

:: 2. Start GPU Awake (fixes popping)
:: start "" /b "C:\Program Files\PowerToys\PowerToys.Awake.exe" -- mode indefinite --display-on true

 

[Tanquen]

My receiver is Marantz SR7012 so Denon x4400h equivalent.

With my old GPU (Nvidia 3070) I had zero issues, but when I switched to AMD 9070 XT, I used to get some pops while watching videos on mpv.net. After a gemini led PC tweaking session, it got resolved. I did add this GPU awake thing (below) to my stream deck automation but it didn't resolve the issue until I tweaked the mpv.net config, so I think the "fix" was attributable to config changes alone.

:: 2. Start GPU Awake (fixes popping)
:: start "" /b "C:\Program Files\PowerToys\PowerToys.Awake.exe" -- mode indefinite --display-on true

I wonder what HDMI chipset it has your Marantz has? My 6500 has no problems. I got the 6800 for a couple of weeks, I had the 4090 at the time and then returned the 6800 and that fixed the problems. Support kept trying to tell me it was my cables or something else. Like they didn't know anything about the issues. On top of dropping audio, it would also go to a black screen randomly that you had to power cycle to get rid of. It just seems like they don't test the new HDMI chipsets and it seems like there's only one supplier. Like the ones before that that were supposed to support HDMI. 2.1 and 120 HZ but couldn't. From what I've read the 3900 has the same issues. Dropping PC based audio and the removal of QMS.

I mean, I'm actively using the display when it happens so it does seem weird that some sort of keep GPU or display awake app would fix anything. But I had read that in a few different places.

 

[HipHopPotatoMouse]

Yeah, your issue sounds different. Gemini's hypothesis was that amd gpu was entering a deep low power state, causing a clock glitch that was causing the pop, so the keep awake seemed like a reasonable mitigation - except that it didn't work

I heard of cables playing a role in handshake issues but I haven't experienced it yet. I recently switched from copper to fiber optic hdmi cables to reduce the ground loop hum that became audible after adding the high sensitivity purifi Amp. I can recommend. Could be a cheap troubleshooting step.

 

[Tanquen]

I'm not sure if the cables were causing some kind of issue. Anything's possible. But again swapping the 6500 back in fixed everything using the same cables.

These are longer runs so I'm already using fiber HDMI cables. But like most of the fiber HDMI cables they're not pure fiber so the eARC connectivity is still going over copper.

My eARC audio issue between the PC and the AVR wasn't a pop it was just the audio cutting out every few seconds or so. I even moved things around so I could test with a much shorter HDMI cable and the issue persisted.

 

[HipHopPotatoMouse]

Were you using bitstream or LPCM? I believe bitstream has more chances for issues. Since I send no more than 7.1 channels, I use LPCM.