@Veganfloyd, one Audyssey tip I can offer: your fronts are showing that characteristic 1.8kHz dip. Since you have the app, turn off Midrange Compensation (MRC).
Yes, it's SINAD related but I rather have 2.0V (Pre-out only) going to an external amplifier vs 1.4V (Spkr + Pre-out)!
Denon AVR-X3300W Preamplifier Measurements
One thing I really love about Denon receivers is they NEVER skimp on their preamp out circuits. Like past models, the AVR-X3300W had an ample amount of drive. I measured a whopping 4.5Vrms unclipped output, which is more than double the voltage needed to make virtually any amplifier reach full rated power. Yamaha please pay attention and step your game up particularly with your AV receivers in this price range that clip above 1.6Vrms. A preamp output of less than 2Vrms is unacceptable in my book.
Agreed on all points. A simple toggle gets you “free additional performance” so why not?That's the misleading part though if you don't mind, because someone could interpret that as limited to 1.4 V when choosing speaker+preout, that is clearly false. Either way you will still get the same, or almost the same output voltage limit, right up to at least 3.5 V, if not the maximum limited by the volume control IC and opamps in the pre out signal path. At closer to the limit, such as 4 V, yes SINAD will likely drop to lower than 70 dB, but clipping is generally considered as SINAD reaching about 40 dB, that is 1%.
I used the following as an example a few time, but that's long time ago so I thought I should post it for new comers to see:
The X3300W, is 3 to 4 generations older than the current X3800H, it absolutely has no preamp mode, that is only speaker+preouts, volume control, opamp, dac ICs and circuitry were all very similar to the X3400H through X3800H.
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Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review
The Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X networking AV receiver features the latest in HD audio and video processing, music streaming and offers future expandability with solid preamp outputs.www.audioholics.com
One can just read Gene's comments, if not the whole review:
Absolutely, for example, I have taken enough measurements to know that in any of my rooms, even 1 V will be more than enough for my power amps based on my listening habit, amp gain and speaker sensitivities, but given the choice I would definitely target devices that can do up to 4 V/8 V RCA/XLR at SINAD no less than 70 dB.Agreed on all points. A simple toggle gets you “free additional performance” so why not?
Gain: | 25.5 dB | |
Pre out Vrms | Power amp Vout | Power amp output W |
1.4 | 26.37 | 173.86 |
1.6 | 30.14 | 227.08 |
1.8 | 33.91 | 287.40 |
2 | 37.67 | 354.81 |
2.2 | 41.44 | 429.32 |
2.4 | 45.21 | 510.93 |
2.6 | 48.97 | 599.63 |
2.8 | 52.74 | 695.43 |
3 | 56.51 | 798.33 |
3.2 | 60.28 | 908.32 |
Don't get offended warning (as I may be stating the obvious things you already know...): In order to understand why, you should first make sure you are comparing apples to apples and it is easier to do if you just use 2 channel in direct mode to eliminate the effects of DSP, and go from there. Then you need to compare without knowing which one you are listening to, this part is difficult to do for the obvious reasons, but if you know which one you are listening to then it doesn't matter what you think you are hearing, as very few people, if anyone, are not influenced by "knowing which one.....".
Did you compare in direct/pure direct mode with no DSP/Audyssey? As above if done sighted, it wouldn't count but if the differences were really "large", and was done in pure direct mode under the exact conditions (speakers, contents listened to, placements etc.), then I would say it is worth measure the actual frequency response with REW, the Umik-1 mic costs $79 plus shipping, you will need that if you don't have one yet.
That's generally true when no dsp functions are involved, with dsp in use, there will be audible differences, from subtle to the so called night and day kinds, it depends..
As soon as you started comparing with DSP in use, and even with Audyssey then it gets complicated and personal preference will start to dominate. For example, what you consider as bass heavy could be just fantastic for others. So on that, I would just wait and see what others have to say, as for me, once it gets into the subjective territory, there is nothing for me to say that could be helpful at all.
Just replaced my Marantz SR6007 because the input board didn't work anymore with a Denon X3800h Because it seemed an affordable option at 790 euro (777 german euros) and I never liked the small Maranz circular display. Both were used with the onboard amplifiers and no room correction yet. Cats don't like the setup noises and not enough time in a day. I tried Audyssey with the Marantz but didn't like the end result, so left it off.
I listened to some music and a film maybe a bit more low but not that I noticed it. Setup screens have hugely improved and the HEOS app works alright. No problems playing flac from the raspberry pi (via minidlnad) Speaker setup is still the same two large fronts, no sub because they go low enough and two bookshelf surrounds. No idea what to do with all the leftover channels. It didn't come with Dirac that seems an expensive option.
Did read the original review from Amir but forgotten about it until after ordering
Earc works but that really old hdmi cable needed replacing. Standards have changed not all hdmi cables are the same.