Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[Narnian]

It's a mistaken correction on the part of Audyssey where they assume and try to correct for a boost at the crossover point between woofer and tweeter. The problem is no decent speakers have this problem. So you have to remove it with the mobile app or delete the MRC filter directly in MultiEQ-X on PC. It's my theory that most people prefer the sound of Dirac Live over Audyssey because of this foolish mid range correction as well as a reduction in bass. I delete the MRC in MultiEQ-X and add a +6db boost in bass with a shelf filter. I'm very happy with the results after these fixes.

Turned that off and they all flattened out. Need to learn more about these settings. Thanks for the help and information.

This was the bass - about the same for each sub.

 

[draven]

Hi All. Any thoughts on why all of a sudden I would lose sound for surround channels on a 7.2.4 setup? I checked the levels in the manual setup and no tone for just those channels. I’ve switched amps, speakers and double checked connections. Even tried direct speaker connections with the 3800 as opposed to preouts. Did the reset to default settings as well and went through audyssey again but still nothing.

Any ideas or is this a mechanical failure? I purchased it about a month ago but didn’t install this till recently then this happened. Hoping the seller ca somehow help as well as opposed to sending this to Panurgy OEM service center in NJ. Please help if you can. Thanks in advance!

 

[Descartes]

Too bad I missed this coupon! Maybe next year

 

[mctron]

Do you use DynEQ after the bass boost?

I’m back and forth on this. Some days I feel like it’s a bit too much and others I think it sounds really good (+6 or so bass boost per harman, and DEQ on). At the moment I leave it boosted for 3.1 system in more open room and unadjusted on 5.2 in sort of a more closed off room. Perhaps need to just back it off slightly

 

[Trell]

I’m back and forth on this. Some days I feel like it’s a bit too much and others I think it sounds really good (+6 or so bass boost per harman, and DEQ on). At the moment I leave it boosted for 3.1 system in more open room and unadjusted on 5.2 in sort of a more closed off room. Perhaps need to just back it off slightly

DynEQ has its issues, especially increased surrounds levels for me. I used different Reference Level Offset depending on what I’m listening on, so 0 for movies (Bluray) and -10 for the rest, but sometimes I adjust on the fly. Since I use a Logitech remote the reference level is set via selecting activity.

For some multichannel SACD I disable DynEQ as the increased surround levels destroys the front stage and almost move it behind me. For some other content, like movies and streaming TV, I sometimes just lower the surround levels manually.

 

[amper42]

Hi All. Any thoughts on why all of a sudden I would lose sound for surround channels on a 7.2.4 setup? I checked the levels in the manual setup and no tone for just those channels. I’ve switched amps, speakers and double checked connections. Even tried direct speaker connections with the 3800 as opposed to preouts. Did the reset to default settings as well and went through audyssey again but still nothing.

Any ideas or is this a mechanical failure? I purchased this from RSL speakers and received this just about a month ago but didn’t install this till recently then this happened. Hoping they can somehow help as well as opposed to sending this to Panurgy OEM service center in NJ. Please help if you can. Thanks in advance!

With my Denon AVR the first thing to fail was the height amps. If your internal amps don't work with surround channels and an external amp/preout setup fails too, that's either a wrong Denon amp assign configuration, someone hit the Pure button or some other configuration is set like Stereo mode on the remote - or serious hardware failure?

Push the "Info" button labeled #5 below. What channels does it show should be active? If Surround speakers are not listed push the "Movie" button under Sound Mode and see if you can correct the issue. If someone had a fat finger on the remote it's not hard to change the configuration. But the info button should show you what's suppose to be playing. These suggestions are super basic but if you only had the AVR for a month and the cat walked on the remote it could cause confusion.

If none of this works you have a hardware issue and the next test would be moving the surround speakers to Front L/R to see if they play then. You want to be sure nothing is wrong with cables or speakers. Basic trouble shooting ideas. You will come up with more. If none of this works I would return the unit if still in return window. Panurgy OEM would be the last choice. Panurgy totally delayed my repair for 90 days and when they sent it back it was scratched all over, screws rattling inside and the front door was broken. I had to send it back to them again and then they said they could not repair it. Worst service I have experienced. Hope you don't have to use them.

 

[Trell]

@draven: As to what @amper42 says I would add that the Quick Select buttons are very handy to store a setup that you can return to easily.

For each of the activities on my Logitech Harmony remote a Quick Select is done which has the settings I want.

 

[draven]

@draven: As to what @amper42 says I would add that the Quick Select buttons are very handy to store a setup that you can return to easily.

For each of the activities on my Logitech Harmony remote a Quick Select is done which has the settings I want.

Thanks Trell and amper42. Unfortunately it showed all speakers should be on with the different source material I was using. Also, I would think when manually adjusting levels for each channel with the tone setting or redoing the audyssey setup it would play the tone sound at least. This is after each single change of variable, trying different amps, internal amps, switching out speakers to different channels and even speaker and rca cables. I have sound coming out of fronts, center, subs and rear surrounds.

I was going to assign the setups to quick select buttons, one for HT and one for phono but that will have to wait until I get a replacement.

I agree. I want to avoid getting this repaired after the stories I’ve heard about Panurgy OEM.

 

[ban25]

Do you use DynEQ after the bass boost?

I don't, due to the aforementioned surround volume level issue. I have tried it and it's not terrible for movies in most cases, but just not something I've needed to have on following the +6db correction.

 

[Head_Unit]

It's a mistaken correction on the part of Audyssey where they assume and try to correct for a boost at the crossover point between woofer and tweeter. The problem is no decent speakers have this problem.

Yeah, what is up with that? A friend worked at Audyssey but I can't ask him as he has moved up to Beats. It's just DUMB. And anyway if there IS such a boost, isn't the Audyssey supposed to flatten it out anyway? Most all the speakers I see measured have a power response DIP at the crossover. Dialing that sh!t out with the App noticeably improved things [barf emoji]

 

[Karls_speaker_works]

Yeah, what is up with that? A friend worked at Audyssey but I can't ask him as he has moved up to Beats. It's just DUMB. And anyway if there IS such a boost, isn't the Audyssey supposed to flatten it out anyway? Most all the speakers I see measured have a power response DIP at the crossover. Dialing that sh!t out with the App noticeably improved things [barf emoji]

I find it especially galling whereas I have an electrostatic panel producing frequencies from 125Hz - 24kHz

 

[Acerun]

It dramatically fall above 1.4V, so with the audiophonics purifi which has a gain of 25db, max 77 W are effectively available.
So, the limited gain of the audiophonics and the limited output of the Denon preamp will give either low power or bad performance.
Very sad.
Apollon provides gain selector for 12,8/20,5/27,5/29 db, but is significantly more expensive, and was never tested here.

If I understand correctly, if you only use an external amp for L/R, the Denon output is 2v and Purifi amps are 2.2v sensitivity I believe...So could one expect reasonable performance in that case? The 1.4v wouldn't be in play.

 

[Acerun]

Simple AB tests with Denon 4700 pre-amp mode vs RME ADI-2 with same Purifi amp in stereo and Revel F328Be. The RME ADI-2 easily sounds better to my ear. I was unable to get the Denon AVR with or without Audyssey to sound as good as simply using the ADI-2 with a stereo configuration. That's why I now leave the Denon AVR off for stereo music playback.

Curious about this as I have recently been considering this route as well. Two reasons I hesitate, 1) I lose my room correction 2) I lose my subwoofer crossover. Do you normally use subwoofers and Audyssey XT32 with the Denon? It makes SINAD sense in that the RME has a much better DAC and the Purifi is fantastic. Another positive is the RME's Loudness feature. So then you just use the Denon as is for Home Theater and have the Purifi as a stand alone Stereo system? So then you have to switch your speaker cables between the Purifi and Denon each time? Sorry, I'm trying to digest the whole picture.

 

[amper42]

Curious about this as I have recently been considering this route as well. Two reasons I hesitate, 1) I lose my room correction 2) I lose my subwoofer crossover. Do you normally use subwoofers and Audyssey XT32 with the Denon? It makes SINAD sense in that the RME has a much better DAC and the Purifi is fantastic. Another positive is the RME's Loudness feature. So then you just use the Denon as is for Home Theater and have the Purifi as a stand alone Stereo system? So then you have to switch your speaker cables between the Purifi and Denon each time? Sorry, I'm trying to digest the whole picture.

Here's how I use the RME-ADI-2:
MacBook Pro-> Qobuz -> USB-> RME ADI-2 -> Purifi -> Revel F328Be (No sub needed for Stereo)

Here's how I setup Denon 4700:
Sony UBP-X800M2 ->Denon 4700 -> Monolith 7x200-> 7.2.4 with Revel F328Be Fronts.

All I do is plug in the appropriate speaker banana plugs to the F328Be depending on if stereo or a Movie is desired. I found the Purifi is ideal with 4V while the Monolith is my choice for the Denon 4700. I could use a switcher/preamp to do this but it takes me 90 sec. to swap banana plugs.

 

[Acerun]

Here's how I use the RME-ADI-2:
MacBook Pro-> Qobuz -> USB-> RME ADI-2 -> Purifi -> Revel F328Be (No sub needed for Stereo)

Here's how I setup Denon 4700:
Sony UBP-X800M2 ->Denon 4700 -> Monolith 7x200-> 7.2.4 with Revel F328Be Fronts.

All I do is plug in the appropriate speaker banana plugs to the F328Be depending on if stereo or a Movie is desired. I found the Purifi is ideal with 4V while the Monolith is my choice for the Denon 4700. I could use a switcher/preamp to do this but it takes me 90 sec. to swap banana plugs.

I see. Thanks for sharing. I do have an extra RME ADI-2 FS...I'm envisioning:

Stereo -

Android app> Wiim Mini to optical out> RME > Audiophonics S400TEPurifi > SOLUPEAK P2 Switcher > Revel M106 Speakers

Home Theater -

Apple TV 4k (newest version), Sony UBP-X800M2 or X > Denon X3700h > SOLUPEAK P2 Switcher > Revel M106s, M206 Center, M55XC Surrounds with Audessey 32XT and two 1000w Rythmik HX1000XLR3 Hypex subwoofers

I will look up the monolith amps...I just need 5 channels. Also, if I want to spend the money, I can get 5 channels of Ncore Hypex 250w for $1300 delivered to the US from Audiophonics.

Will the M106s be enough by themselves for stereo with sufficient bass...aka Fading Sun? I'm in love with my subs...man....There's no perfect solution but I'm working on tracking it down.

I may not need to upgrade the Denon for home theater.

 

[Acerun]

Here's how I use the RME-ADI-2:
MacBook Pro-> Qobuz -> USB-> RME ADI-2 -> Purifi -> Revel F328Be (No sub needed for Stereo)

Here's how I setup Denon 4700:
Sony UBP-X800M2 ->Denon 4700 -> Monolith 7x200-> 7.2.4 with Revel F328Be Fronts.

All I do is plug in the appropriate speaker banana plugs to the F328Be depending on if stereo or a Movie is desired. I found the Purifi is ideal with 4V while the Monolith is my choice for the Denon 4700. I could use a switcher/preamp to do this but it takes me 90 sec. to swap banana plugs.

The Monoliths with the OG TOROIDAL TRANSFORMERS. Looks like they are rated the same as Hypex Ncore 250w, both at 1.6v sensitivity. The Monoliths are $1,599 plus tax and shipping I believe, for the 5 channel version.

 

[beaRA]

Yeah, what is up with that? A friend worked at Audyssey but I can't ask him as he has moved up to Beats. It's just DUMB. And anyway if there IS such a boost, isn't the Audyssey supposed to flatten it out anyway? Most all the speakers I see measured have a power response DIP at the crossover. Dialing that sh!t out with the App noticeably improved things [barf emoji]

You are both misunderstanding a bit. Midrange compensation is a dip in the target curve to avoid over-correcting for a sound power dip at the crossover. If you have a flat target curve and a speaker with an in-room response that dips due to a directivity mismatch, you can mess up the on-axis response by boosting to a flat in-room response.

You should still disable midrange compensation if your speaker does not exhibit such a dip at 2kHz. It's a one-size fits all solution that doesn't fit well designed speakers.

 

[peng]

If I understand correctly, if you only use an external amp for L/R, the Denon output is 2v and Purifi amps are 2.2v sensitivity I believe...So could one expect reasonable performance in that case? The 1.4v wouldn't be in play.

Again, 2V is not the maximum output. Maximum should be more than 4 V. 2 V was just the voltage Amir, and other reviewers used for their tests when RCAs are used.
The maximum is limited by the hardware and between 0 and the maximum, SINAD varies so you have to see the graph and pick the lowest SINAD you want to target and see what the output voltage is at that point.

 

[Acerun]

Again, 2V is not the maximum output. Maximum should be more than 4 V. 2 V was just the voltage Amir, and other reviewers used for their tests when RCAs are used.
The maximum is limited by the hardware and between 0 and the maximum, SINAD varies so you have to see the graph and pick the lowest SINAD you want to target and see what the output voltage is at that point.

Peng, I know we've been down this road before but I have a hard time letting it go. If I understand correctly if I use the x3700 in pre-amplifier mode, SINAD goes up correct? So if I were to plug in all purify amplifiers with the Denon in preamplifier mode, it should measure better? Is the limiting factor of the x3700 the DAC?

 

[NoCoYeti]

@peng To piggy back on @Acerun question....

I assumed the blue "Denon AVR-3800" line was internal amps and the red "Ch2" line was when using external amps, correct?

That would mean using the internal amps would give you a higher SINAD. From your prior comments, I believe it is the other way around.

I guess I am confused about the difference between the two lines. One channel vs two?