I'm in need of a new 9 channel receiver to replace my 20 year old Yamaha 1500, and ordered the 3800. Basically I want to add 4 ceiling Atmos speakers to my fairly state of the art laser projector/MadVR setup. However I do listen to a fair amount of 2 channel music. I may also add some transducers to the couch. I've also been thinking of tinkering with Dirac even though my attic home theater is quite neutral and Audyssey may be sufficient. Although I prefer Dirac included, don't mind upgrading in next year's budget. Currently I use a HDMI switch (Vertex2) to extract audio for my Yamaha receiver and a WIIM mini and Topping AKM DAC (115 SINAD) to play 2 channel music into the Yamaha in Pure Direct through Audirvana (for DSD and other hires support). I do listen to some Multichannel DSD and currently use a Panasonic UB-820's 5.1 analog out (AKM DAC) to the Yamaha multichannel analog input.
Am having some doubts after reading all the negative comments on the DAC of the 3800. However, I don't seem to have much choice:
1. I cannot get an Onkyo RZ50 here or any Pioneers. Seems like they only sell in certain countries
2. The Marantz Cinema 50 is much more expensive and may have the same issue with the TI DACs
3. The Yamaha A6A and especially Anthems are much more expensive.
For 2 channel music, I think I should be ok as I probably will continue to use the WIIM/Topping in Direct mode since no receiver has 115 SINAD and I like the WIIM interface. Amir's measurements of the amplifier section seem to be ok.
So the concern on the internal DAC would be:
1. Multichannel DSD since I don't see a multichannel analog input, and would have to convert to 5.1 PCM (Denons don't accept Multichannel DSD directly) and use the internal TI DAC.
2. Atmos soundtracks being decoded internally and run though the TI DAC. Supposedly explosions and other loud sounds may distort
Would appreciate opinions on my concerns over the internal DAC especially real life experiences of Atmos movie soundtracks being affected by a lower SINAD DAC. Also what alternatives do I have in new AVRs? Am reluctant to buy an older model as I want to future proof with HDMI 2.1 given I don't change receivers often.
I am in a similar boat as you. My Denon Legacy AVR just popped a Cap and is in Protection Mode. I run outboard McIntosh Amps for the 5 of my 5.1 System and have new REL S Series Subs (Pair) that have added greater depth to my Kef Ref Speakers (LCR & SR, SL). The REL's use Amp Line output signal at high impedance to draw a low level signal for driving the powered subs, plus an input for the .1 LFE.
At this point, with the disappointment of the 3800H and expected 4800H, I may opt to repair my Legacy Denon AVR, and wait another production cycle. The recent release of new performance DAC's on the market may come with later productions in the future Denon, that is my hope. The A1H Flagship due out soon is not as impressive as I would expect in performance, based on what I am seeing to be specified for the product release. The A1H may surprise us, but still not expecting the numbers to be worthy of the price and I don't want to leave money on the table when I can't justify the price/features/build/performance.
I like the Denon AVR's because I have had reliable and outstanding performance with their products for over 35 years. In view of the recent changes with Video (8K) and IC market with availability, I felt the 2020 Denon AVR's were just a little behind the curve for Video and Multichannel UI, so I pinned my hopes on the 2022 production. With the test results from @amirm
, still feeling the Denon is behind the curve with the performance, but I am excited by the new DSP, UI and the new features and onboards like future Dirac which include the 4 Subs and new Amplifier design that was applied in the Flagship AVR.
Willing to wait and want to be wowed by the investment for the AVR. As someone mentioned earlier (maybe @peng
), we vote with our dollars to support a company and their products. I believe the 4800H Amp class and Power would be sufficient for the Atmos, but may wait out for the 4900 or whatever comes in the next production cycle, probable 2024 is my guess. The Dirac multiple Bass is not scheduled until 2024, according to the 2800H/3800H Youtube Video that Denon released which was posted earlier in this thread. By then, the products "may" be ready and not quite "half-baked" with pending upgrades and regressive performance specifications, as tested here on ASR.
Meanwhile, the door is open for anyone that can offer a better product that rewards a serious investment in a SOTA that competitively fits the performance-feature-price-reliability metrics. "Is there anybody out there?"