Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[popej]

When idle it draw 79w

Try to set Eco mode to Auto.

ECO AVR-X3800H

manuals.denon.com

 

[delta76]

Try to set Eco mode to Auto.

ECO AVR-X3800H

manuals.denon.com

Good note. I just tried again.
Off: 73w idle, 73-74w playing
Auto: same
On: 43-44w

But my point is that how much (or little) power speakers draw. Mine are KEF which are not super sensitive

 

[Bleib]

Good note. I just tried again.
Off: 73w idle, 73-74w playing
Auto: same
On: 43-44w

This seems to be the standard, I have "only" the 2800h and this is what AI responds

The Denon AVR-X2800H typically consumes about
35 watts when idle (no sound, ECO mode on) and up to 75 watts when idle with ECO mode off.
Key power metrics for the unit include:

• Idle (ECO On): 35W
• Idle (ECO Off): 75W
• Standby (CEC/Network off): 0.1W
• Standby (HDMI Control/Network on): 0.5W - 2.5W

Seems to be a normal thing with class AB:ish (so I still wonder why Denon has not made anything with class D for surround)

 

[popej]

But my point is that how much (or little) power speakers draw

If you listen at low volume, then the power transferred to speakers can be a fracton of a single watt. It grows exponentially, when you turn volume up.

 

[delta76]

If you listen at low volume, then the power transferred to speakers can be a fracton of a single watt. It grows exponentially, when you turn volume up.

As I mentioned in previous post, this is already playing at uncomfortable loudness. I just want to demonstrate that speakers draw less power than most people think, in normal listening case.
X3800h is fine for at least 95% user cases

 

[peng]

ECO auto could hurt sound quality if one listens loud enough, because "auto" responds to the volume setting, not the actual voltage/current required on real time basis. If you know at your listening level, you don't need anywhere close to, say less than 30% the full rated output of the AVR then no worry at all.

 

[popej]

ECO auto could hurt sound quality if one listens loud enough, because "auto" responds to the volume setting

Not that I know actual implementation, but since peak of digital signal is defined and preamp gain is set digitally to a known value, auto should play it safely, with adequate headroom. The only problem could be at the start of the playback after a longer pause.

 

[peng]

Not that I know actual implementation, but since peak of digital signal is defined and preamp gain is set digitally to a known value, auto should play it safely, with adequate headroom. The only problem could be at the start of the playback after a longer pause.

One can confirm how it works easily because when it switched back and off one would hear the "click" sound. It will switch back to eco off when the signal is strong enough but there is a delay. Now, I would concede that's was the case for the older models up to the X3700/4700/6700H series, so to confirm it for the latest model, owners of them would have to do the quick experiment themselves.

 

[popej]

It will switch back to eco off when the signal is strong enough but there is a delay.

IMO it should use some pause detection, that should work at the range of -90dB DBFS. If this detection triggers at higher levels, like -20dB, then it could lead to problems.
Actually, the difference between high and low power is not that big, could be about 6-8dB. It is not that often, that you would get clipping, even if switching is delayed.

 

[antcollinet]

Nope that is not average nor peak, it is the current power draw. When idle it draw 79w, inline with what I had for my x4700h (77w-78w)
Even with a movie playing it does not draw more than 1w for all speaker
This is the power draw at standby
View attachment 516552

Then I don't understand why "energy used" is only showing 0.032kWh over 9.1 hours. If the 79W is continuous, then it should be more like 0.719kWh.

Or, are you saying most of that 9.1hours it has been in standby at 3W? Which then pretty much matches.

 

[delta76]

Then I don't understand why "energy used" is only showing 0.032kWh over 9.1 hours. If the 79W is continuous, then it should be more like 0.719kWh.

Or, are you saying most of that 9.1hours it has been in standby at 3W? Which then pretty much matches.

Yes. The smart plug registers up time if there is current. So basically 24/7 because the denon draws 2-3 even at standby. This is power draw in last 24h

 

[Geertidow]

I have 2 questions which I cannot find in the manual.
1. I now use home assistant to get the automatic input select (Wiim Pro for Plexamp with optical out, Projector with eARC or HEOS), since the X3800h won't turn on when casting to the Wiim.
2. When I have any eARC capabilities turned on on the Denon (ARC, audio switching, et cetera) and I turn off the projector, the Denon mutes all other sources. I can cast to the Wiim or the Heos, but no sound comes out.
I would prefer to let the Denon manage everything, but I don't like restarting the Denon every time I turn off the projector to listen to music. Does anybody know a workaround for this?

 

[delta76]

I only aware of HDMI-CEC to turn on x3800h when I cast to my Shield. I am not aware if there is a trigger for toslink

 

[peng]

Nope that is not average nor peak, it is the current power draw. When idle it draw 79w, inline with what I had for my x4700h (77w-78w)

Without reading the instruction manual for the specific meter, and assuming by "current", you probably meant instantaneous, so the watts display would change all the time when the AVR is being used (not in standby or idling).

Note that display in "watts" practically would always show the average power as such meters would not be fast enough to register the actual moment by moment instantaneous voltage, current the phase angle so the value might be the average of x seconds, or milli seconds. Good to see that it does not display the misnomer "RMS power" or "Watts RMS" as there is no such thing.

When just idling, the displayed value would still represent instantaneous value, but would likely be more or less constant, so it would also be the average consumption.

Even with a movie playing it does not draw more than 1w for all speaker
This is the power draw at standby
View attachment 516552

In this case, since consumption is 0.089 kWH, in 10.3 h, so average power over 10.3 h = 89/10.3 = 8.64 W and the 3 W would be the instantaneous, or what you called "current" power draw at that specific moment. Based on this assumption, within the 10.3 h "run time", there must be time when the AVR was actually under load, that is, playing a movie or something.

 

[delta76]

yes, I played it for like 1h, (and usually I pause it, leave it idle for a while until it goes to auto standby)
the smart plug should have resolution < 1s. I noticed how fast it respond to change in power, like when I turn it on/off or change ECO mode of the AVR. however it's not important, as you can see the chart it never draws more than 81w (I picked a scene where there was continue actions so if it's peak, it's there). In any cases, my point is x3800h is fully capable of driving a full home theatre, up to 9.4 (11.4 if you add two external amps). Don't add an amp "just because". speakers draw less power than you think, and x3800h can drive them to loudness better than you think

 

[B-Flow]

Sorry if this already posted somewhere and I just couldn't find it: are the amp tests/measurements which Amir does into 4ohm loads done with the Denon in its default - "min 8ohm speaker" setting?

 

[EWL5]

Sorry if this already posted somewhere and I just couldn't find it: are the amp tests/measurements which Amir does into 4ohm loads done with the Denon in its default - "min 8ohm speaker" setting?

It should be under the default setting. Makes no sense to handicap an amp when Amir does his performance bench tests.

Setting the A/V Receiver Impedance Selector Switch

This article explores the purpose and function of the impedance switch found on some A/V receivers. Tradeoffs of following manufacturers recommended settings are also discussed. YouTube video inside.

www.audioholics.com

 

[peng]

yes, I played it for like 1h, (and usually I pause it, leave it idle for a while until it goes to auto standby)
the smart plug should have resolution < 1s. I noticed how fast it respond to change in power, like when I turn it on/off or change ECO mode of the AVR. however it's not important, as you can see the chart it never draws more than 81w (I picked a scene where there was continue actions so if it's peak, it's there). In any cases, my point is x3800h is fully capable of driving a full home theatre, up to 9.4 (11.4 if you add two external amps). Don't add an amp "just because". speakers draw less power than you think, and x3800h can drive them to loudness better than you think

I agree, it really wouldn't be an issue for most use cases (I assume..), but those who want to have much more output than they apparently need, are probably those who want to make sure their amp would never get close to the clipping point, in order to cover the rare moments when the contents they listen to could/would have peaks that exceed 20 dB.

As you know, if your typical "draw" is say, 1 W, with 20 dB peak, that 1 W would jump to100 W, 23 dB peak would become 200 W, and then there is the possibilities of such peaks could be at frequencies where the impedance dips well below 8 ohms or even 4 ohms.

For that, and other reasons, I never use ECO except when listening at low level, such as with volume set to below -25.
Your smart plug will not be able to catch many of those high peak draws, it probably like you mentioned, could do <1 s response time, but I highly doubt it could accurately measure V and I that last for duration less than 0.5 s. The period (time for one cycle) of a 1 kHz signal is only 0.001s, or 0.001s at 100 Hz.

In terms of whether people often, or tend to under, or over estimate how much amplifier output they need, I believe the saying, that it depends.

 

[Bucking]

What about ECO to Auto?
That should switch automatically right?

 

[delta76]

What about ECO to Auto?
That should switch automatically right?

Based on my test same power consumption. I don't even bother