Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[peng]

try noctua fan - they are usually the best in performance and noise. price is high but compared to x3800h and the speakers that go with it basically nothing

That's what I have been using, for years, that's what I consider as truly "silent" fans, though one has to choose to the ultra quiet models as they have models that could be as noisy as the Infinity USB fans.

 

[EWL5]

Issue is, the air(atmosphere) is very humid and “moisturous” so when i am blowing it inside, it actually lets the moisture inside with the air, doing more harm than good. As suggested by people in my area with experience.

Any inputs on this?

A hotter environment has the capability of holding more water content but it depends. In the States:

Arizona - dry heat. Temperature is hot but not a lot of moisture around to saturate the air.
Florida - humid. Temperature outside is hot but the humidity just makes it feel hotter. Much water held in the air.
New York - snow and more snow. Temps are so cold that air can no longer hold the water content and condenses.

Which of the above is the worst for your home theater equipment?

Arizona example - heat is bad but not as bad as...
Florida example - any sudden change to higher pressure/lower temperature can start condensing water trapped in the air onto your circuits
New York example - not dangerous. Who's operating equipment when it's actively condensing?

Don't forget that the humidity of outside air is probably better than inside the AVR! I'm in support of 2 fans also when it comes to humid environments.

 

[antcollinet]

Issue is, the air(atmosphere) is very humid and “moisturous” so when i am blowing it inside, it actually lets the moisture inside with the air, doing more harm than good. As suggested by people in my area with experience.

Any inputs on this?

In a former life developing high power electronic devices (variable speed drives for electric motors from 1.5kW up to 300kW) we had a design directive for the lower power ratings to avoid fans if at all possible.

The risk of failure from heat was less of an issue than failure from build up of dust inside the unit. Forced air through equipment creates massive dust build up compared with natural convection cooling. This is particularly bad in humid environments - damp dust becoming conductive.

You only have to look at the average CPU fan after a few months of use to see how dust builds up.

Personally I'll never put a fan on a device that is not operating outside the components rated temperatures.

 

[delta76]

In a former life developing high power electronic devices (variable speed drives for electric motors from 1.5kW up to 300kW) we had a design directive for the lower power ratings to avoid fans if at all possible.

The risk of failure from heat was less of an issue than failure from build up of dust inside the unit. Forced air through equipment creates massive dust build up compared with natural convection cooling. This is particularly bad in humid environments - damp dust becoming conductive.

You only have to look at the average CPU fan after a few months of use to see how dust builds up.

Personally I'll never put a fan on a device that is not operating outside the components rated temperatures.

Agree. The air flow should be outside i.e. to take the hot air away. But x3800h and x4800h should not need active air cooling unless they are put in a rack with very narrow gap on top. With 3-4 inches of gap, usually no problem
With that said if @sahil fardeen is afraid of moist the we already talked about dehumidifier and silica bags to absorb extra moist.

 

[antcollinet]

Agree. The air flow should be outside i.e. to take the hot air away.

It doesn't help much doing it that way. Unless you are planning on creating a vacuum inside your amp, then any air you pull out has to be replaced by the same amount of air coming in. Carrying just as much dust as if the air is blown in by the fan.

 

[delta76]

It doesn't help much doing it that way. Unless you are planning on creating a vacuum inside your amp, then any air you pull out has to be replaced by the same amount of air coming in. Carrying just as much dust as if the air is blown in by the fan.

What I meant was two fans that create an air flow on top of the air. One pushes and one pulls, not one in and one out. When you put AVR in a rack hot air raises on top.
But in most cases it is not necessary.

 

[sahil fardeen]

Thanks for all the inputs, quality points mentioned here.

I know Eco mode isn’t recommended, but it significantly reduces heat buildup…

Also, the hdmi section stays very cool, so that is a big plus. Would i still have to worry about heat generated by the amp section, as the avr will be placed with adequate room on all sides (but inside a shelf)?

Also adding to this, i have various stereo equipments and 5.1 avr that got toasty and hot as hell to the touch in daily use still working like a beast for atleast 20-25 years with me

Significant dust buildup here, and adding fan and later the dust being conductive can cause big trouble… is it fine to leave the avr in its desired operation without any cooling? as the hdmi section stays very, very cool.
Also i will open the avr and clean up the internals once in a while.

 

[Bucking]

Thanks for all the inputs, quality points mentioned here.

I know Eco mode isn’t recommended, but it significantly reduces heat buildup…

Also, the hdmi section stays very cool, so that is a big plus. Would i still have to worry about heat generated by the amp section, as the avr will be placed with adequate room on all sides (but inside a shelf)?

Also adding to this, i have various stereo equipments and 5.1 avr that got toasty and hot as hell to the touch in daily use still working like a beast for atleast 20-25 years with me

Significant dust buildup here, and adding fan and later the dust being conductive can cause big trouble… is it fine to leave the avr in its desired operation without any cooling? as the hdmi section stays very, very cool.
Also i will open the avr and clean up the internals once in a while.

For me personally ECO mode set to auto works perfectly fine.

 

[delta76]

Thanks for all the inputs, quality points mentioned here.

I know Eco mode isn’t recommended, but it significantly reduces heat buildup…

Also, the hdmi section stays very cool, so that is a big plus. Would i still have to worry about heat generated by the amp section, as the avr will be placed with adequate room on all sides (but inside a shelf)?

Also adding to this, i have various stereo equipments and 5.1 avr that got toasty and hot as hell to the touch in daily use still working like a beast for atleast 20-25 years with me

Significant dust buildup here, and adding fan and later the dust being conductive can cause big trouble… is it fine to leave the avr in its desired operation without any cooling? as the hdmi section stays very, very cool.
Also i will open the avr and clean up the internals once in a while.

air purifier + air dehumidifier are your friends. Not only they help your AVR but also your health overall.

 

[antcollinet]

One pushes and one pulls, not one in and one out.

How would you technically describe the difference between those two concepts. What does it mean for air flow?

 

[delta76]

How would you technically describe the difference between those two concepts. What does it mean for air flow?

you can push the air in and the pull the air out, the most common example is a PC case, but as you can't put fan inside x3800h, this will be difficult. also, increase dust build up as you said.
or you can just make sure that hot air raised on top of the AVR is replaced by cool air, avoid heat build up. this is less effective as you are not actively cooling the components, just making sure it does not get too hot. most common example is infinity fan

 

[antcollinet]

you can push the air in and the pull the air out, the most common example is a PC case, but as you can't put fan inside x3800h, this will be difficult. also, increase dust build up as you said.
or you can just make sure that hot air raised on top of the AVR is replaced by cool air, avoid heat build up. this is less effective as you are not actively cooling the components, just making sure it does not get too hot. most common example is infinity fan

Then your differentiation is direction of the fan?

Because if your fan is on top of the devices vents, blowing upwards, then it is taking air out of the device. Not just removing hot air from above it.

If your fan is blowing sideways across the vents, then yes, that can be a useful way of avoiding a build up of hot are on top. But even that will cause a change to airflow through the device due to the turbulence caused in the local environment. In fact you have to be careful, because it is possible to acutally stall the natural convection through the device. If the air above the unit is pressurised slighly by the fan it can be enough to eliminate the pressure differential resulting from the temperature difference between the top and bottom of the unit.

If you don't want to use a fan to blow air (or suck air) through the unit, then the best alternative is to use the fan to exchange the air in the cabinet or shelf the units is in. eg blow air out of the cabinet, so that cooler surrounding air is sucked in.

As always - don't just blindly fit a fan and assume things are going to be better. Always use a temperature probe or thermometer to check you are actually making things better - not worse. Lots of counter-intuitive things can happen with air flow.

 

[peng]

Thanks for all the inputs, quality points mentioned here.

I know Eco mode isn’t recommended, but it significantly reduces heat buildup…

Also, the hdmi section stays very cool, so that is a big plus. Would i still have to worry about heat generated by the amp section, as the avr will be placed with adequate room on all sides (but inside a shelf)?

Also adding to this, i have various stereo equipments and 5.1 avr that got toasty and hot as hell to the touch in daily use still working like a beast for atleast 20-25 years with me

Significant dust buildup here, and adding fan and later the dust being conductive can cause big trouble… is it fine to leave the avr in its desired operation without any cooling? as the hdmi section stays very, very cool.
Also i will open the avr and clean up the internals once in a while.

If you measure the temperature around the unit and if it stays below say, 37- 40 deg C everywhere then I see no need for external fan. If it does, but below say 45 deg C, it should still be fine but in that case some external cooling may help extend its useful life. As far as the concern about dust and moisture, there are going to be a lot of opinions, it is hard to know whether it is really an issue in you case, without being there to assess the conditions. Having said that, relative humidity can be measured so you should be able assess the condition objectively to some extent. As you allude to, moist dust could be an issue.

 

[sahil fardeen]

For me personally ECO mode set to auto works perfectly fine.

Eco auto is simply eco on/off above and below -33db MV? as far as what i have read… or is it really updated and can sense some peaks in output and turn it on/off?

 

[popej]

Eco doesn't have to sense peaks, since level of digital signal is defined. Maybe you could get clipping on analog pure direct input, but difficult to guess if on amp or preamp first.

 

[Geertidow]

Hopefully a final question. Is Dirac ART necessary over DBNC in a 2.2 setup where the subs are right underneath the speakers (stereo setup)?
I know I'll get curious about ART.

And just to double double check. The room correction is miles ahead of Wiim at this moment, right?

 

[Oddball]

ART is miles ahead, that is correct.

 

[Mort]

For an x3800h

1. new is $1500 with 3yr warranty
2. refurbished is $1400 with 1yr warranty

Which do you get?

 

[Bucking]

Both options seem quite expensive

 

[Mort]

Both options seem quite expensive

Except Black Friday, prices have gone up since DiracArt was released. I've been looking for weeks. So, it's more than I paid for an x4800h a year ago, but they are proportionately more now too.