Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[Jose Hidalgo]

That is of course your opinion. You're entitled to it and I'm not here to debate that.
PS : yes, I know how much it would cost.

 

[Geertidow]

The poor sinad, is probably inaudible. Is that true?
Given my two sub setup. Looking at x3800 or x4700.

 

[antcollinet]

The poor sinad, is probably inaudible. Is that true?

Yes - in real world listening with speakers. Definitely.

 

[dfiler]

The poor sinad, is probably inaudible. Is that true?

Yes, it is inaudible. As you age, many other things will become inaudible as well. ;-)

 

[Geertidow]

Yes, it is inaudible. As you age, many other things will become inaudible as well. ;-)

Yes - in real world listening with speakers. Definitely.

Thanks. I'd like to implement OCAs great software someday.

 

[Bleib]

The poor sinad, is probably inaudible. Is that true?
Given my two sub setup. Looking at x3800 or x4700.

Yes, the loudspeaker SINAD is much worse anyway, no matter which speaker anyone owns

 

[EWL5]

The poor sinad, is probably inaudible. Is that true?
Given my two sub setup. Looking at x3800 or x4700.

There is a high likelihood you'd get the TI PCM DACs and not the coveted AKM DACs in the 4700 anyway. At that point, I'd rather choose the newer AVR that is Dirac-capable whether I use it or not!

 

[Oddball]

There is a high likelihood you'd get the TI PCM DACs and not the coveted AKM DACs in the 4700 anyway. At that point, I'd rather choose the newer AVR that is Dirac-capable whether I use it or not!

Also 4 subs out vs 2 subs out as well. Old gen is old gen and can't expect will hold the value over time as well as current gen.

 

[mmares056]

Also 4 subs out vs 2 subs out as well. Old gen is old gen and can't expect will hold the value over time as well as current gen.

And I would add the option to get ART if desired.

 

[Geertidow]

In the Netherlands it's around 900 euro's nowadays. That sound's like a reasonable deal right?

 

[jonfitch]

The poor sinad, is probably inaudible. Is that true?
Given my two sub setup. Looking at x3800 or x4700.

According to the review the Onkyo RZ50 has better SINAD, except everybody knows if you turn on Dirac the noise floor rises a lot and the hiss becomes audible from 3 meters away even passively. These SINAD or SNR measurements in practice don't matter because in actual use there's way more problems with these products that aren't usually measured in a review, like passive hiss, or coil whine and amplifier buzzing noise, or active fan noise with some designs that go in to 40db+ range. Which is why ultimately you have to demo these products products at home to see if you can tolerate their problems.

 

[Geertidow]

According to the review the Onkyo RZ50 has better SINAD, except everybody knows if you turn on Dirac the noise floor rises a lot and the hiss becomes audible from 3 meters away even passively. These SINAD or SNR measurements in practice don't matter because in actual use there's way more problems with these products that aren't usually measured in a review, like passive hiss, or coil whine and amplifier buzzing noise, or active fan noise with some designs that go in to 40db+ range. Which is why ultimately you have to demo these products products at home to see if you can tolerate their problems.

Absolutely, and it feels a bit overkill. I use a toslink for the TV and a 2.2 setup.
I had high hopes for the onlyo p80

 

[delta76]

According to the review the Onkyo RZ50 has better SINAD, except everybody knows if you turn on Dirac the noise floor rises a lot and the hiss becomes audible from 3 meters away even passively. These SINAD or SNR measurements in practice don't matter because in actual use there's way more problems with these products that aren't usually measured in a review, like passive hiss, or coil whine and amplifier buzzing noise, or active fan noise with some designs that go in to 40db+ range. Which is why ultimately you have to demo these products products at home to see if you can tolerate their problems.

better DAC but also worse amp. Actual, much worse. Both get poor rating by Amir.
Everything else not considered, I would take x3800h DAC/amp over RZ50 DAC/amp. the 10dB worse in DAC is better than >10dB worse in amp and power limiting

 

[popej]

Everything else not considered, I would take x3800h DAC/amp over RZ50 DAC/amp. the 10dB worse in DAC is better than >10dB worse in amp and power limiting

True. Unfortunately technically both are good enough, and it is "everthing else", what really matters. In my case x3800h failed on some simple control operations.

 

[Oddball]

If you look into room correction options, Denon can do Audy and Dirac ART, as well as all of the OCA stuff. Onkyo is Dirac Live and Bass control. That's not bad, but certainly does not give much choice.

 

[Geertidow]

If you look into room correction options, Denon can do Audy and Dirac ART, as well as all of the OCA stuff. Onkyo is Dirac Live and Bass control. That's not bad, but certainly does not give much choice.

I worry about the fan noise though. But maybe if there is a good deal I'll try it out

 

[Oddball]

I worry about the fan noise though. But maybe if there is a good deal I'll try it out

I would not worry about that. I have 6700H in another system and fan noise is not audible.

 

[Geertidow]

I would not worry about that. I have 6700H in another system and fan noise is not audible.

Yeah, OCA made me some custom filters in minidsp that were really impressive, so I'd like to implement that in an all in one device. But there is no rush, the Wiim Room Correction is really impressive nowadays, so my Wiim is doing great

 

[jonfitch]

I worry about the fan noise though. But maybe if there is a good deal I'll try it out

The RZ50/LX505/Integra-5.4 have poorly controlled vibrations due to not well damped E-core that you can hear from 10+ feet away in a quiet room. They are passive but in practice almost as noisy as a receiver with active fan noise, I measured about 34-36db at the receiver in a room with around 23db noise floor just from the buzzing amplifier - didn't seem to improve with a power strip with DC offset so it appears to be purely just mechanical noise.

And the RZ70/LX805/Integra-8.4 are even worse, the E-core transformers are better damped but the fan noise is always on is like ~38-40db at low volume, ~44-45db at high volume settings measured at the receiver, louder than even my PS5 even with nothing connected to the receiver and no load. Which really makes no sense given how big the heatsinks on the receivers are, they are ~50lb tanks and still the fan is always on. With something this overbuilt you would think they could go the Yamaha route and just be all-passive.

The Denons 3800H on the other hand are basically passive until the idle temperature becomes dangerous which is why they keep dying from heat related issues, even though its only a lightweight ~27lb receiver that is low-profile and you would think they would want the fan to run more. Passive noise was usually around 26-28db at the receiver, so slightly above ambient noise level in my room but you can't hear anything at the seating location.

 

[Oddball]

The RZ50/LX505/Integra-5.4 have poorly controlled vibrations due to not well damped E-core that you can hear from 10+ feet away in a quiet room. They are passive but in practice almost as noisy as a receiver with active fan noise, I measured about 34-36db at the receiver in a room with around 23db noise floor just from the buzzing amplifier - didn't seem to improve with a power strip with DC offset so it appears to be purely just mechanical noise.

And the RZ70/LX805/Integra-8.4 are even worse, the E-core transformers are better damped but the fan noise is always on is like ~38-40db at low volume, ~44-45db measured at the receiver, louder than even my PS5 even with nothing connected to the receiver and no load. Which really makes no sense given how big the heatsinks on the receivers are, they are ~50lb tanks and still the fan is always on.

The Denons 3800H on the other hand are basically passive until the idle temperature becomes dangerous which is why they keep dying from heat related issues, even though its only a lightweight ~27lb receiver that is low-profile and you would think they would want the fan to run more.

Not sure what to say. Noise floor above 40dB is a bit loud. Also not aware that 3800H's are dying from heat related issues?