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Denon AVR-X3800H Review

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 88 18.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 217 44.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 140 28.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 40 8.2%

  • Total voters
    485
Was this part of a software update?
It became Roon Ready since April 8th firmware update. More Denon and Marantz models will follow after Roon finishes their respective Roon certifications. For now only Denon X3800H and Denon S670H are Roon Ready. As for Marantz, the AV10 is Roon Ready.

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It became Roon Ready since April 8th firmware update. More Denon and Marantz models will follow after Roon finishes their respective Roon certifications. For now only Denon X3800H and Denon S670H are Roon Ready. As for Marantz, the AV10 is Roon Ready.

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Pardon my tech ignorance, but what is Roon and what does it do for you? And is Roon better than Heos? Btw, I have the Denon AVR-X4700.
 
Pardon my tech ignorance, but what is Roon and what does it do for you? And is Roon better than Heos? Btw, I have the Denon AVR-X4700.

Roon is a modern hype of audioholics, who request their devices to support any latest cool tech, even if they don't necessarily plan to use one :) And it also eventually costs you more, than your favourite music service you already pay for.

For me, all what is needed is my favourite services listing available devices I want to shift the playback onto. Hence I am fine with the direct Spotify / Tidal client Connect functionality. Don't even need HeOS.

Maybe if Sound United would be supposed to start over, I would suggest them to licence BlueOS from BlueSound instead, but that is not realistic, especially because HeOS is imo good enough, even if not liked by many. :)
 
Roon is a modern hype of audioholics, who request their devices to support any latest cool tech, even if they don't necessarily plan to use one :) And it also eventually costs you more, than your favourite music service you already pay for.

For me, all what is needed is my favourite services listing available devices I want to shift the playback onto. Hence I am fine with the direct Spotify / Tidal client Connect functionality. Don't even need HeOS.

Maybe if Sound United would be supposed to start over, I would suggest them to licence BlueOS from BlueSound instead, but that is not realistic, especially because HeOS is imo good enough, even if not liked by many. :)
Thanks, well, I use Amazon Music HD on my laptop PC and play it into my Anthem STR preamp via USB cable. Sounds great. I recently picked up Qobuz on a trial and it sounds about the same to me, but the app appearance is way busier. With earbuds, there did seem to be a slight difference in favor of Amazon Music.
 
Roon is a modern hype of audioholics, who request their devices to support any latest cool tech, even if they don't necessarily plan to use one :) And it also eventually costs you more, than your favourite music service you already pay for.

For me, all what is needed is my favourite services listing available devices I want to shift the playback onto. Hence I am fine with the direct Spotify / Tidal client Connect functionality. Don't even need HeOS.

Maybe if Sound United would be supposed to start over, I would suggest them to licence BlueOS from BlueSound instead, but that is not realistic, especially because HeOS is imo good enough, even if not liked by many. :)
"Roon is a modern hype of audioholics" haha, I have to agree, mostly, you cannot deny its great value for some power users like Amir; but for the common foe is............ I guess a personal decision. As I said before; these days there are so many ways to stream music at home, even with DSP and many are free, and some have even more capabilities. I tried Roon for 45 days, beautiful software, reliable, informative, but it is not a $800 value for me. does not support Apple Music, my prefer streaming service.
As it is, I could invest $200, with Apple music with Atmos maybe $300, but that it is.
 
@peng I have a x3800h currently and a Buckeye purifi 2nd gen 3 channel amp on the way. The x3800 is still in it's return period to my local big box. I am worried about the review Amir posted about the noise and distortion on the preouts.

I ordered the Ascend Acoustic ELX towers and center, and a pair of their bookshelf speakers for the rears going into a 5.2.4 system. The buckeye purifi 3 channel will be powering the towers and center. Internal amps for the surrounds and atmos. The listening distances is going to be between 6-18 feet, depending on which seat. Main listening position is 13 feet. These wont be here for another month or so. I will not be able to test all of this before the return window ends. If I have the opportunity to get a Marantz Cinema 40 for the same price as the x3800h or an x6800h for a little bit more money, would that be an audible difference in distortion? I have seen another post of yours where you mention that these receivers at "moderately low volume" and "well below these receivers capacity" they should all sound similar. But, my family is not one for "moderately low volume" during movies or music. My wife and I specifically like to listen at or near reference levels, or we turn it up to clean or play board games in another room.

What is your professional opinion here? Will we notice the difference or am I freaking out for no reason? My ADHD has been kicking in hard here and I have been scouring every forum, review, and video I can find on the matter, but I can't find anything definitive. The more information I find the more confused I become. We wont be adding anymore channels as our room wont support that. So that is not a factor here. I am purely concerned about sound quality.
 
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What is your professional opinion here? Will we notice the difference or am I freaking out for no reason?
I have the 3800. The defects are going to be inaudible for almost everyone in almost all circumstances. Probably everyone all the time for real world listening (with speakers in a room with typical noise levels)

Amir slated it mainly because it performed slightly worse than the predecessor. He likes (correctly) to see things head in the opposite direction.
 
@peng I have a x3800h currently and a Buckeye purifi 2nd gen 3 channel amp on the way. The x3800 is still in it's return period to my local big box. I am worried about the review Amir posted about the noise and distortion on the preouts.
Since you are concerned specifically about the noise and distortion on the preouts, you should refer to the following graphs for answers:

So you can see that if you believe you can tell the difference between 87 dB and 95 dB SINAD at 2 V, you should go for the Cinema 40.
In case you are more used to distortions and noise in %, 87 dB vs 95 dB is approx. 0.0045% vs 0.0018%

To per things in perspective, the Marantz AVP, model AV7705, at 2 V preout (RCA, or 4 V XLR) is about -75 dB, that is about 0.018% and that is obviously many times higher than that of the AVR-X3800H's 0.0045%.

It is important to note that such comparisons may not mean as much as it seems because for example, the results were for test signal of 1 kHz and at 2 V. So, if you listen at a very loud level of say, 10 dB below reference, the preout voltage may vary between 0 and 1 V, and may never get close to 2 V, depending on the sensitivity of your speakers and you distance. If you know the distance, and your speaker's sensitivity are known, you can easily estimate the maximum pre out voltage you need for the buckeyeamp.
Specifically, based on your 13 ft distance and the ELX's sensitivity of 90.5 dB (though I would de-rate it to say 88 dB such to be on the conservative side as they do seem closer to 5-6 ohms than the 8 ohms Ascend claimed, you may need pre outs voltage close to 1.5 V during media contents peaks. In that case, even the X3800H's distortions + noise levels wouldn't be an issue.


1745757411806.png
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Another important point is, the performance between the two AVRs seemed to be much closer if you compare the above graphs for Amir's test results but for "wide band" signal, take a look:

The difference, was only about 2-3 dB, to the Denon's favor. In other words, in this measurements, that is more relevant to real world use, the Denon won. The bottom line is, Amir's top line comments are often based on one or more specific tests that is obviously useful for evaluating the duts in terms of "engineering excellence" but not always relevant (though often enough) to purchase decision making that we want to base on potential "sound quality (whatever the means)".

1745758356692.png
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I ordered the Ascend Acoustic ELX towers and center, and a pair of their bookshelf speakers for the rears going into a 5.2.4 system. The buckeye purifi 3 channel will be powering the towers and center. Internal amps for the surrounds and atmos. The listening distances is going to be between 6-18 feet, depending on which seat. Main listening position is 13 feet. These wont be here for another month or so. I will not be able to test all of this before the return window ends. If I have the opportunity to get a Marantz Cinema 40 for the same price as the x3800h or an x6800h for a little bit more money, would that be an audible difference in distortion? I have seen another post of yours where you mention that these receivers at "moderately low volume" and "well below these receivers capacity" they should all sound similar. But, my family is not one for "moderately low volume" during movies or music. My wife and I specifically like to listen at or near reference levels, or we turn it up to clean or play board games in another room.

Based on distortions+noise comparisons above, if you do listen to near reference level at 13 ft, there won't be much difference between using the X3800H and the C40, though if the price are about the same then for sure the Cinema 40 would be a great buy. Here in the USA or Canada, even the Cinema 50 would cost much more than the AVR-X3800H so I don't understand why you can get the C40 for about the same price.

If the X6800H costs just a little more, then in my opinion it is a better value. There's no measurements available, but given that it has the same DAC chip as the Cinema 30, I am confident that it would have much lower distortions and noise than the Cinema 40.

What is your professional opinion here? Will we notice the difference or am I freaking out for no reason? My ADHD has been kicking in hard here and I have been scouring every forum, review, and video I can find on the matter, but I can't find anything definitive. The more information I find the more confused I become. We wont be adding anymore channels as our room wont support that. So that is not a factor here. I am purely concerned about sound quality.

If money is the most important factor, I would vote for the Cinema 40, otherwise the X6800H is the best of the 3 based on specs and projected bench test measurements. I don't have "professional" opinion, but that's my opinion based on my experience in this hobby, and mostly on available specs and measurements.

I also think you should not freak out as there are no practical reasons for the difference between those 3 units to be noticeable, even if you listen to reference level. At that level, you may feel enough pain, to quickly turn the volume down at least 5 to 10 clicks lol..
 
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I have this receiver and sometimes when switching between hdmi sources the receiver "freezes" where all controls stop working, even the power button. The only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. It seems to happen mostly, or only, when I have my Lenovo Legion in use. Anyone else experience anything similar?
 
I have this receiver and sometimes when switching between hdmi sources the receiver "freezes" where all controls stop working, even the power button. The only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. It seems to happen mostly, or only, when I have my Lenovo Legion in use. Anyone else experience anything similar?
I suspect you might have a high level of ground noise in your system. That might just be down to the PC (is it laptop, or desktop type?), but could also come in from an external antenna system.

You don't by any chance have a device connected to the AVR that has an antenna signal coming from a distribution system do you?

Ot to ask the problem another way - do you still get the same issue if all antennas connected to the system are disconnected?
 
I suspect you might have a high level of ground noise in your system. That might just be down to the PC (is it laptop, or desktop type?), but could also come in from an external antenna system.

You don't by any chance have a device connected to the AVR that has an antenna signal coming from a distribution system do you?

Ot to ask the problem another way - do you still get the same issue if all antennas connected to the system are disconnected?

No I don't have any antennas.

It's a laptop. If it was ground noise wouldn't that cause sound issues? Because I don't have any.
 
No I don't have any antennas.

It's a laptop. If it was ground noise wouldn't that cause sound issues? Because I don't have any.
Not necessarily if you are not running long analogue interconnect. I assume the connection from PC to AVR is digital.

What about if you run the laptop from its internal battery - do the freezes still happen?
 
Not necessarily if you are not running long analogue interconnect. I assume the connection from PC to AVR is digital.

What about if you run the laptop from its internal battery - do the freezes still happen?
Yes I use hdmi.

It's impractical for me to use battery power because it's a gaming pc. Battery power does not last long and it reduces performance too much.
 
Since you are concerned specifically about the noise and distortion on the preouts, you should refer to the following graphs for answers:

So you can see that if you believe you can tell the difference between 87 dB and 95 dB SINAD at 2 V, you should go for the Cinema 40.
In case you are more used to distortions and noise in %, 87 dB vs 95 dB is approx. 0.0045% vs 0.0018%

To per things in perspective, the Marantz AVP, model AV7705, at 2 V preout (RCA, or 4 V XLR) is about -75 dB, that is about 0.018% and that is obviously many times higher than that of the AVR-X3800H's 0.0045%.

It is important to note that such comparisons may not mean as much as it seems because for example, the results were for test signal of 1 kHz and at 2 V. So, if you listen at a very loud level of say, 10 dB below reference, the preout voltage may vary between 0 and 1 V, and may never get close to 2 V, depending on the sensitivity of your speakers and you distance. If you know the distance, and your speaker's sensitivity are known, you can easily estimate the maximum pre out voltage you need for the buckeyeamp.
Specifically, based on your 13 ft distance and the ELX's sensitivity of 90.5 dB (though I would de-rate it to say 88 dB such to be on the conservative side as they do seem closer to 5-6 ohms than the 8 ohms Ascend claimed, you may need pre outs voltage close to 1.5 V during media contents peaks. In that case, even the X3800H's distortions + noise levels wouldn't be an issue.


View attachment 447177View attachment 447178

Another important point is, the performance between the two AVRs seemed to be much closer if you compare the above graphs for Amir's test results but for "wide band" signal, take a look:

The difference, was only about 2-3 dB, to the Denon's favor. In other words, in this measurements, that is more relevant to real world use, the Denon won. The bottom line is, Amir's top line comments are often based on one or more specific tests that is obviously useful for evaluating the duts in terms of "engineering excellence" but not always relevant (though often enough) to purchase decision making that we want to base on potential "sound quality (whatever the means)".

View attachment 447179View attachment 447180




Based on distortions+noise comparisons above, if you do listen to near reference level at 13 ft, there won't be much difference between using the X3800H and the C40, though if the price are about the same then for sure the Cinema 40 would be a great buy. Here in the USA or Canada, even the Cinema 50 would cost much more than the AVR-X3800H so I don't understand why you can get the C40 for about the same price.

If the X6800H costs just a little more, then in my opinion it is a better value. There's no measurements available, but given that it has the same DAC chip as the Cinema 30, I am confident that it would have much lower distortions and noise than the Cinema 40.



If money is the most important factor, I would vote for the Cinema 40, otherwise the X6800H is the best of the 3 based on specs and projected bench test measurements. I don't have "professional" opinion, but that's my opinion based on my experience in this hobby, and mostly on available specs and measurements.

I also think you should not freak out as there are no practical reasons for the difference between those 3 units to be noticeable, even if you listen to reference level. At that level, you may feel enough pain, to quickly turn the volume down at least 5 to 10 clicks lol..


Thank you for putting it all into perspective for me. I am, as you can probably guess, very new into all of this. I've been researching for months, and when it gets down to the charts and the math, still don't quite understand what it all means., and if the differences means a better/worse time for my ears. Thanks for breaking it down like that for me.

So I guess I shouldn't have said I could get them at the same price like that. Odd situation I guess. I own the x3800h, for now. So, returning it I got 1700 back ( + taxes , that's relevant ). Bought it at best buy, wasn't on a real sell. My old Onkyo just died and I needed a new one. Anyway, I saw this thread and it made me realize that I may not have made the best choice for my new speakers. I paid a bit for them and would like to be able to get the most out of them, you know? So I was bouncing around while I was still in the return window wondering what I should do. Keep it and see if I notice it? Will I think I do? Or take it back now and get something that measures a bit better where that wont be a problem at all. I won't have the speakers for a month or 2. So long after the return window. I did go ahead and spring for the x6800 due to it having the same DAC as the Cinema 30. Anyway, sorry, I'm rambling. The math. I found accessories4less where the Cinema 40 was 1999 on sale, no taxes. So essentially, the same price. The x6800 was 2299 ( No taxes ). So I added a couple hundred from the return of the x3800h to get the x6800h. Wasn't really the right way to look at it, justifying my purchasing by saying I wasn't spending much even though I could have just returned the x3800 and got one for 999/1099 whatever they are on sale for at random times... but, alas. My ADHD/Compulsion has calmed down and I can relax again!

@peng You are amazing! You are all over different forums that I've been researching on and your posts have always been really helpful. You are a staple in this community. Pretty awesome to have people like you around. Makes the hobby better as a whole.
 
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@peng I have a x3800h currently and a Buckeye purifi 2nd gen 3 channel amp on the way. The x3800 is still in it's return period to my local big box. I am worried about the review Amir posted about the noise and distortion on the preouts. I am purely concerned about sound quality.
There is nothing to be concerned about. You're not going to hear any difference whatsoever. A sinad score of 70 will sound the same as a sinad score of 120 to the human ear.
 
It's somewhat unfortunate that a review non-recommendation ostensibly issued to "punish" a company for a slight regression in measured performance is instead driving unsuspecting customers to actually spend *more* money with said company on products they don't actually need...
 
It's somewhat unfortunate that a review non-recommendation ostensibly issued to "punish" a company for a slight regression in measured performance is instead driving unsuspecting customers to actually spend *more* money with said company on products they don't actually need...

Yeah. I like Amir's objective testing. There is a place for it and I really appreciate it - hard to find it elsewhere. Not a huge fan of his subjective recommendations, though, since they do carry a lot of weight around here.
 
Does it automatically switch off Hdmi module if we connect all hdmi sources to TV and use optical connection to AVR ? Does Hdmi out also introduce noise ? I am planning to use it as pure pre amp.
 
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