antcollinet
Grand Contributor
seconded.
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Denon AVR-X3800H Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
There is nothing remotely in the same price range that can match it. That said, in my opinion it needs tinkering with target curve as default is a bit dry/bright.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
But bear in mind, tuning of target curve is very much going to be a personal preference. I've gone a bit to far in the other direction by applying a Harmon type target during the Audessey One scripting. This one sounds great (to me), but is not quite bright enough. I'll try fixing that when I apply A1 evo.
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When I get mine (waiting for boxing day sale
), I will try oca's script so in preparing for the experiments I would like to read up more about it. There are so many YT videos out there about the different versions, could you kindly recommend one that is about the latest version (EVO?) but include full instructions/tutorial? Thanks!
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Deleted member 71304
Guest
Is the price difference with the Marantz justified in your opinion?
I am genuenily asking, no sarcasm intended.
I am genuenily asking, no sarcasm intended.
The beautiful thing about the 3800 is you have 2 world class RC options to choose from: Audyssey and Dirac (pay to play)!
You can use target curves to taste (i.e. Harman) with either one!
For about $800 difference (retail price to retail price in US), you have to justify if the following is worth more for the Cinema 50:
- fancy box w/porthole
- "made in Japan"
- questionable HDAM addition
The comparison below tends to be fairly sobering for most folks as it showcases just how much of a premium clone the Cinema 50 is:
Denon AVR-X3800H vs Marantz Cinema 50: Comprehensive Comparison
Compare the Denon AVR-X3800H and Marantz Cinema 50. Discover the differences in features, specs, performance, and find out which A/V receiver is the best for you.
www.zkelectronics.com
Marantz to Denon has always been fairly similar to the Lexus to Toyota comparison (ES was always based on Camry and migrated to Avalon more recently).
My short response:
Great, and popular question, with often predictably variable, even controversial (sometimes) answers!
My take is, if you like and value their look, and the 2 year longer warranty a lot more, then yes. If not, no.
The apparent facts are: In terms of features, specs and expected bench test results): AVR-X3800H=Cinema 50 (measured slightly/marginally better), X4800=Cinema 40, X6800H almost= Cinema 30 (a little better), A10H almost (a little better)=Cinema 30
Long response:
More subjective reviews seem to claim in general, equivalent M models "sound better" than "D models". Those kind of claims are just claims, mainly baseless (technically), and I would predict such claimers would fail in properly done blind comparison listening tests and I know I am not the only who would make such prediction.
Having said that, people with unusual hearing/discerning abilities may be able to tell a difference if compared using digital source at sampling rate at below 48 kHz, based on M model's slow roll off dac filter that would result in a little lower response from around 20,000 Hz, dropping about 2-3 dB by 20,000 Hz. How many individuals at age >40 can tell the difference of say 0.5-1 dB drop at 10-15 kHz with single tone, let alone music, would be my challenge question on such a claim, even based on scientific, measurable facts.
HDAMs are also used to support those claims by Marantz but it is not hard to debunk that one, simply base on logic.
Forgot one more apparent and may be important fact that applies specifically to the AVR-X3800/4800H and Cinema 50/40, may be because I have make that point so many times now, making it easy to forget lol..:
Price differentials for those are typically 200 to 300 Euros in countries like France and Germany, probably the UK too but in £ so subject to exchange rates.
That's a lot less than the US800 or CAD$1050 for the X3800H vs C50 in the USA and Canada. If I were in the UK, France or Germany, I would go with Marantz for sure.
Regardless, this one fact really tells even D+M/Masimo knows their marketing team is able to take full advantage of the human factor, that, if you give many audiophiles enough reasons/differences, even if those reasons/differences do not result in audible (let alone better) results, they will believe it and therefore willing to pay for differences. Why and how they know North American audiophiles are more susceptible to their marketing hype is a mystery to me.
Price differentials for those are typically 200 to 300 Euros in countries like France and Germany, probably the UK too but in £ so subject to exchange rates.
That's a lot less than the US800 or CAD$1050 for the X3800H vs C50 in the USA and Canada. If I were in the UK, France or Germany, I would go with Marantz for sure.
Regardless, this one fact really tells even D+M/Masimo knows their marketing team is able to take full advantage of the human factor, that, if you give many audiophiles enough reasons/differences, even if those reasons/differences do not result in audible (let alone better) results, they will believe it and therefore willing to pay for differences. Why and how they know North American audiophiles are more susceptible to their marketing hype is a mystery to me.
D
Deleted member 71304
Guest
Thanks a lot for the info!Forgot one more apparent and may be important fact that applies specifically to the AVR-X3800/4800H and Cinema 50/40, may be because I have make that point so many times now, making it easy to forget lol..:
Price differentials for those are typically 200 to 300 Euros in countries like France and Germany, probably the UK too but in £ so subject to exchange rates.
That's a lot less than the US800 or CAD$1050 for the X3800H vs C50 in the USA and Canada. If I were in the UK, France or Germany, I would go with Marantz for sure.
Regardless, this one fact really tells even D+M/Masimo knows their marketing team is able to take full advantage of the human factor, that, if you give many audiophiles enough reasons/differences, even if those reasons/differences do not result in audible (let alone better) results, they will believe it and therefore willing to pay for differences. Why and how they know North American audiophiles are more susceptible to their marketing hype is a mystery to me.
Well, from what I have seen so far in the EU you can find the Denon AVC-3800 (not the AVR by the way, that one seems to have vanished) for 900-1000€, the Marantz 50 for 1400€ and Marantz 40 goes up to 1800€ (best offer I found on both)
So pricewise I think the 3800 is really good
I assume those are street prices, those I quoted are official D+M website list prices. So, I guess in the EU, dealers are offering a little more discounts on Denon’s. That’s probably they have been selling a lot more Denon models, at least 2 to 1 would be my guess.
In Canada, Marantz rarely goes on sale, dealers probably can make good money on the huge margin alone, whereas on Denon, they have to make it up on volume. Sales volume could have been 4:1 if not higher.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
I'm not up to date with the latest versions, so will need to research myself. Just done this search. First two videos look like they might be interesting, but I've not watched yet.When I get mine (waiting for boxing day sale
@EWL5 or @Sylvia can you please confirm the x3800h has the 2ch stereo menu or not? The manual does not mention that, only the 4800’s menu has a section on it. We already know Denon manuals are not 100% accurate on certain features.
It is not a must so I won’t pay C$1,100 more for the 4800 or C$2,200 for the C40, but is just curious to know.
It is not a must so I won’t pay C$1,100 more for the 4800 or C$2,200 for the C40, but is just curious to know.
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As I don’t use it, what am I looking for? Treatment of an incoming stereo signal?
Yes, for the 4800 it is under the manual setup/speaker layout. If the 3800 has this feature, it is likely under the same heading. I used it occasionally when I was using the x4400h.
2ch Playback AVR-X4800H
manuals.denon.com
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Deleted member 71304
Guest
Sorry, mine hasn't arrived yet. Otherwise I'd check that gladly
I didn't see a menu specifically for 2CH playback. But I tested the remote buttons playing a CD stereo track from my Oppo BDP83:Yes, for the 4800 it is under the manual setup/speaker layout. If the 3800 has this feature, it is likely under the same heading. I used it occasionally when I was using the x4400h.
2ch Playback AVR-X4800H
Pressing the "Music" button on the remote to toggle through the following:
STEREO
Dolby Surround
Auro3D
Now toggling through the "Pure" button on the remote:
DIRECT
Pure Direct
Stereo (PURE)
Is this what you were looking for?
emptygreat
Member
Hi. Latest version is Nexus as @antcollinet pointed out. If you're familiar with rew measurements, it should be pretty straightforward to set it, and so far I'm really happy with what I've been getting out of OCAs calibration methods. Adding to the videos, I would also recommend going through the changelog of the different versions as it does contain some helpful information. There's already a small thread on Nexus here on ASR and a huge one at AVS. Depending on your system, particularly if you don't have height channels, you can make your measurements directly with rew sweeps, yet OCA also provides both lossless and lossy files with Atmos sweeps.When I get mine (waiting for boxing day sale
I don't have any option for 2ch stereo under speaker layout menu, probably as the 3800 has information from my 5.1 system after the audyssey calibration. As @EWL5 mentioned, you can easily switch to 2ch playback using the pure (yellow button) when stereo content is being played. This option was already available on my previous x1800h, so I guess you mean something else. Anyway, all the options mentioned on the manual link you shared are available to me on the x3800.
Many thanks again for taking the time!
Not really the 2 Ch playback feature though. I had the AVR-X1800H for a while so I do know even without the 2 Ch stereo playback menu, in stereo and direct mode, I could still have subwoofer on, so the only missing capabilities that is only available on the 2Ch Stereo playback menu seems to be that with that menu, one could have the bass management (i.e. setting XO etc., ) even in direct mode and potentially when using analog inputs iirc when I was using the X4400H, whereas the lower models that don't have this menu can still use the sub and set XO but in Stereo, but in direct mode, while you can still set XO, but there would be something funny going on there, and with analog inputs, XO could still be set, but would have no effects at least for the X1800H.
So it looks that feature is reserved for the AVR-X4800, Cinema 40 and higher models, that's more than fair, considering the significantly higher price for those models.
It won't affect my purchase decision as I no longer have such a need anyway, now that I have DLBC. The 3800 has been on sale regularly now in Canada for around $1800-$1900, that is roughly US$1280. As soon as the price drop to about $1400 = US$1000, I will likely pull the trigger. I am only picky on price because again, I don't really need one, just want one.
Thank you so much for the detailed description. I will start watching/reading so I'll be ready if and when I get my AVR-X3800H, timing would depend on when it will drop to, or close enough to the US sales price point. Hopefull it will happen on boxing day.
I will use the unit for 2 channel stereo music only but it is good to know @OCA has got us covered on everything, even for using Atmos sweeps, though I would like to see one for 2.2 stereo if there is such simplified version and therefore a shorter video to watch lol... I could do wonder with Ratbuddyssey, but OCA's scripts seem like a much easier and quicker way to get great results. Either way, it really renders my 2X4 HD useless, but I will keep it until I played with the X3800H, then I'll sell it for sure, even for $100 or less, is better than having it sitting in the box, though now that I have sold the X1800H, I had to take it out of the box and used again mainly to set crossovers when using my separates that are 2 ch stereo only.Yes, the 2Ch stereo menu I referred to is for the upper models only, as now confirmed by EWL5 and you, but I thank you both for taking the time. This is really expected because the owner's manual only mention that menu for the 4000 series, but I need you guys to confirm it because one member posted the difference versions of Denon's owner's manuals that are different on the bass management section, so that gave me the faint hope. Again as I mentioned, I no longer need that feature for my intended application, only asked the question out of curiosity.
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