Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[antcollinet]

If I may ask this just out of curiosity: how does one do gain match of different amps on the 3800? Does the software include some feature for it?
I mean, I find it really interesting and of course it totally makes sense: If one uses different amps with different specs such an issue is likely to arise

You can adjust the levels of all speakers in the user interface.

If you run Audessey auto correction, that should match the gains for you as long as they are not so different the AVR doesn't have enough adjustment.

 

[peng]

Would it be worth a try to use a converter from RCA to XLR in order to avoid ground loops? Sth like this:

ART Two Channel Pro Converter. XLR, RCA and 1/8" I/O w/ 12V AC Adaptor

ART Two Channel Pro Converter. XLR, RCA and 1/8" I/O w/ 12V AC Adaptor DEMO

proaudioland.com

You can try the rca to xlr cables first. If the cables are wired correctly, they should work well enough.

 

[cdx47]

I've though briefly about using XLR converters. But I recently watched a couple of videos comparing XLR cables with RCA using sponsored kit. Even with sponsored kit, the conclusion was that their best use is for long distance runs or in an electrically noisy environment. With converters it depends on their quality and the quality of the equipment being connected to. This article is a write up of one of the videos I watched and it talks about the possible use for long runs between pre and power amplifiers.

 

[antcollinet]

or in an electrically noisy environment.

Which can include any system with a ground loop - notoriously difficult to predict, and hard to solve without using galvanic isolation (ie toslink to DAC in stead of USB) or using balanced connections.

I will always make sure any Dacs or Amps I buy at least have the option of balanced IO.

 

[cdx47]

Which can include any system with a ground loop - notoriously difficult to predict, and hard to solve without using galvanic isolation (ie toslink to DAC in stead of USB) or using balanced connections.

I will always make sure any Dacs or Amps I buy at least have the option of balanced IO.

Well the option for XLR certainly would have been useful to remove the ground loop from my minidsp to subwoofer connection

 

[peng]

I've though briefly about using XLR converters. But I recently watched a couple of videos comparing XLR cables with RCA using sponsored kit. Even with sponsored kit, the conclusion was that their best use is for long distance runs or in an electrically noisy environment. With converters it depends on their quality and the quality of the equipment being connected to. This article is a write up of one of the videos I watched and it talks about the possible use for long runs between pre and power amplifiers.

Thanks, I read that article quickly so might have missed something, but if not, then I fully agreed with what was stated except the part on "fully balanced blablabla" seemed to be "upselling" kind of talks some dealers would do based mostly on audio myths. Other than that, the OP's question is about "ground loop", not just the general "picked up" noise. If I got it right, I assume the question was about using preamp/dac that has only RCA outputs, with power amps with only XLR inputs.

So, back to the ground loop thing, in the linked posts below, I covered some of the articles by Hypex, and about the relevant AES standard:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

@Sylvia I always recommend trying the Monoprice premier cable because:

a) It is inexpensive.
b) It seems to meet the AES48 standard that Hypex and rane emphasized. Note: Monoprice did include a jumper between pin 1 and the shield but electrically speaking, that minor exception should not matter, if it does it can be removed easily (I would just use a side cutter, again, only if necesssary).
c) I have been using those for a few years now on different gear, never experienced any audible ground loop related noises.

The only cautionary note I have on those cables is that @Buckeye Amps (Dylan) mentioned more than once, that some of his customers have had ground loop noise using the Monoprice cables, but in my back and forth with him, he have clarified that it was not in every cases, I quote below:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Hopefully Dylan can tell us more (such as connecting what device's unbalanced outputs to his amps?) about the use cases where people had experienced ground loop issues, or just other kind of issues.

I don't have specifics. Just reported issues. Especially during a period of time in 2023. As of late, they seem to be working fine for customers but I also have a customer recently who ordered (8) and one introduced hum.

Hence why I just point people to Cables Matter and Worlds Best...no reported hum yet with either of those brands.

Official US manufacturer of Purifi and Hypex amplifiers
Check out our website!

 

[ban25]

Would it be worth a try to use a converter from RCA to XLR in order to avoid ground loops? Sth like this:

ART Two Channel Pro Converter. XLR, RCA and 1/8" I/O w/ 12V AC Adaptor

ART Two Channel Pro Converter. XLR, RCA and 1/8" I/O w/ 12V AC Adaptor DEMO

proaudioland.com

I don't think you need an external amp. Your speakers aren't particularly hard to drive. That said -- if you insist on an external amp, and given that you're in Europe, there's a good chance you'll encounter ground loops with single-ended connections. So you want to ensure that you are running XLR to XLR without adapter cables. That means: Don't buy the Denon if you want to use an external amp.

But, as I mentioned, you don't need the amp. It's just a "feel-good" accessory that might cause ground loops.

 

[Deleted member 71304]

Thanks, I read that article quickly so might have missed something, but if not, then I fully agreed with what was stated except the part on "fully balanced blablabla" seemed to be "upselling" kind of talks some dealers would do based mostly on audio myths. Other than that, the OP's question is about "ground loop", not just the general "picked up" noise. If I got it right, I assume the question was about using preamp/dac that has only RCA outputs, with power amps with only XLR inputs.

So, back to the ground loop thing, in the linked posts below, I covered some of the articles by Hypex, and about the relevant AES standard:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

@Sylvia I always recommend trying the Monoprice premier cable because:

a) It is inexpensive.
b) It seems to meet the AES48 standard that Hypex and rane emphasized. Note: Monoprice did include a jumper between pin 1 and the shield but electrically speaking, that minor exception should not matter, if it does it can be removed easily (I would just use a side cutter, again, only if necesssary).
c) I have been using those for a few years now on different gear, never experienced any audible ground loop related noises.

The only cautionary note I have on those cables is that @Buckeye Amps (Dylan) mentioned more than once, that some of his customers have had ground loop noise using the Monoprice cables, but in my back and forth with him, he have clarified that it was not in every cases, I quote below:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

Maybe it is time we start offering our own RCA to XLR cables.....what say the masses? Do they offer the same kind of noise protection and shielding as truly balanced cables?

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you so much!

 

[peng]

I don't think you need an external amp. Your speakers aren't particularly hard to drive. That said -- if you insist on an external amp, and given that you're in Europe, there's a good chance you'll encounter ground loops with single-ended connections. So you want to ensure that you are running XLR to XLR without adapter cables. That means: Don't buy the Denon if you want to use an external amp.

But, as I mentioned, you don't need the amp. It's just a "feel-good" accessory that might cause ground loops.

Fully agreed, I tape a couple wattmeters in the recent audiofest where they were demoing some speakers that are likely "power hungry" playing at unbearably loud level. In all but one case, the wattmeter showed around <1 to <5 W average and never exceeded 45 W during the highest peaks.

 

[Deleted member 71304]

I guess I took it too seriously when Erin recommended a power amp for the Wharfedale Aura 2 (he said one may run into power issues with a common AVR), so I guessed the combo R700+Aura 2+ Airmotiv B1+ would be too much for the 3800

 

[peng]

I guess I took it too seriously when Erin recommended a power amp for the Wharfedale Aura 2 (he said one may run into power issues with a common AVR), so I guessed the combo R700+Aura 2+ Airmotiv B1+ would be too much for the 3800

It depends on your seating distance and how lould you listen, but if you want to drive the Aura 2 to its designed limit regardless, then the 3800 can make it, but will also be near its limit.

So, in that case it is a good idea to get something like a 3 channel buckeyeamp, the one based on the well measued NC252MP should be good enough.

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

 

[Deleted member 71304]

(...) if you want to drive the Aura 2 to its designed limit regardless, then the 3800 can make it, but will also be near its limit.

I don't need to drive them to the limit (it's a 25sq m living room)

 

[Deleted member 71304]

So, in that case it is a good idea to get something like a 3 channel buckeyeamp, the one based on the well measued NC252MP should be good enough.

I have a 2 channel hypex NCx500 by Boxem and it does deliver enough power for the Auras, so I guess using that one for the auras and the denon for the r700 and Emotivas should be ok

PS: Thanks for your response

 

[peng]

I don't need to drive them to the limit (it's a 25sq m living room)

As suggested, you can try it without ext. amp first. If it runs too warm to the touch, a $20 120mm usb fan will fix it.

 

[peng]

I have a 2 channel hypex NCx500 by Boxem and it does delicer enough power for the Auras, so I guess using that one for the auras and the denon for the r700 and Emotivas should be ok

PS: Thanks for your response

Absolutely!

 

[Deleted member 71304]

Absolutely!

cheers mate and apologies for being a pest

 

[ban25]

I guess I took it too seriously when Erin recommended a power amp for the Wharfedale Aura 2 (he said one may run into power issues with a common AVR), so I guessed the combo R700+Aura 2+ Airmotiv B1+ would be too much for the 3800

Maybe a problem with a really bargain basement AVR, like the S series, but not an X3800H...

 

[peng]

cheers mate and apologies for being a pest

Any time! The Denon should be a good match for the R700 and Emotiva B1, the B1's rated 8 ohms nominal and power handling spec is only 150 W peak anyway.

There are many online calculators you can play with yourself:

Examples:

Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English (US)

www.crownaudio.com

Audio Calculators

Audio Calculators. How loud will my stereo play? How much power do I need? Conversions from % to dB. Conversions between Volts and dBu, and much more.

benchmarkmedia.com

Peak SPL Calculator

 

[Ncesar]

Good night all. Is this model still a good purchase for 2024? Some EU retailers are selling for around €1000.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Good night all. Is this model still a good purchase for 2024? Some EU retailers are selling for around €1000.

Yes