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Denon AVR-X3800H Review

Rate this AVR

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 85 18.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 214 46.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 130 28.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 33 7.1%

  • Total voters
    462
Help me understand how I might use sinad (as one of the many measurements and features) that might influence my purchasing decision.

I see two ratings in the review. One being preamplifier output and the other amplifier output. From my interpretation, if I am using the amplifier output, the performance is more or less leveled to other options and relatively good performer.

If using the amplifier isn't that the sinad measurement I should be focusing on to get the device with the best relative output at the end of the day?

I have read discussions on dac measurements and their impact on the sound when taking into account all the other losses in the system. I also understand why the overall rating is what it is. That's fine. I am more interested in understanding the performance of the 3800h relative to a similar avr when used to power my speakers.
 
I own the 3800 and it replaced a comparable Denon. The discussion has mainly centered on the difference in the DAC. Denon had to go with a different vendor because AKM had a fire. Peng did an excellent job in this thread covering the difference between the two and why Amir thought that the 3800 was a downgrade from the previous model. Is there any significant difference between say the 3800 and 4800..not that I can see. I believe if you are using the internal amps you are getting the same performance. The differences in models are more about features until you get close to the Flagships. The 3800 is a good product from my viewpoint for every day performance because of the added features like 4 subs, Dirac suite, the pre amp options, etc.
A couple of slight concerns is the hdmi switching and the menu switching is slower and gives me some blank screens. That's different from my previous Denon. I also preferred the older version for music. This is subjective and means little. I do have perfect hearing, though.
 
You can either:

1) Purchase the $20 Audyssey MultEQ Editor app, disable MidRange Compensation, and calibrate again.

2) Return the 3800 for an RZ50. Not many choices in this price range. You get way less AVR quality for the same amount of money from the old days!

I suggest you do #1 first before making a final decision.
Thanks, I took your suggestion and bought the app. It took many tries and restarting the amp, the app, and my home router (the test would fail after the second or third speaker) but it finally worked. It detected the sub and set all my levels. I disabled MidRange. The only advice I see everywhere is to disable Audyssey above 500hz or something to that effect. Not sure how to do that, but I'm going to go back in today and see if it's obvious.

I'm also leaning toward downgrading to the 2800 because I only have a 5.1 setup. I lose some power, but that seems to be it.

I use a Niles auto speaker selector thing to have my towers hooked up to a Sonos amp and my HT. When the Denon turns off, the Sonos has the right of way to come on and off, but when the Denon turns on it overpowers Sonos. I used to have it setup with the Sonos player (no amp) into the Denon, but could not get the Denon playing the Sonos source to sync with the rest of the rooms and it drove me crazy. The living room would be a hair slower than the kitchen. Guests might not notice, but I could hear it and it destroyed all enjoyment. But I say this because the difference in sound with the denon powering the towers vs the Sonos amp is night and day better. Now I just want to use HEOS and not use my sonos.
 
Thanks, I took your suggestion and bought the app. It took many tries and restarting the amp, the app, and my home router (the test would fail after the second or third speaker) but it finally worked. It detected the sub and set all my levels. I disabled MidRange. The only advice I see everywhere is to disable Audyssey above 500hz or something to that effect. Not sure how to do that, but I'm going to go back in today and see if it's obvious.

I'm also leaning toward downgrading to the 2800 because I only have a 5.1 setup. I lose some power, but that seems to be it.

I use a Niles auto speaker selector thing to have my towers hooked up to a Sonos amp and my HT. When the Denon turns off, the Sonos has the right of way to come on and off, but when the Denon turns on it overpowers Sonos. I used to have it setup with the Sonos player (no amp) into the Denon, but could not get the Denon playing the Sonos source to sync with the rest of the rooms and it drove me crazy. The living room would be a hair slower than the kitchen. Guests might not notice, but I could hear it and it destroyed all enjoyment. But I say this because the difference in sound with the denon powering the towers vs the Sonos amp is night and day better. Now I just want to use HEOS and not use my sonos.
Downgrading to the 2800 is certainly an option but then you will lose the Dirac suite of products as a future option (DL, DLBC, ART, etc.).

If you have a 5.1, you're frankly better off w/the 3800 powering everything instead of the 2800. I'm using the 3800 to power a 5.1.2 setup with the L and R channels going to an external stereo amp.
 
Thanks, I took your suggestion and bought the app. It took many tries and restarting the amp, the app, and my home router (the test would fail after the second or third speaker) but it finally worked. It detected the sub and set all my levels. I disabled MidRange. The only advice I see everywhere is to disable Audyssey above 500hz or something to that effect. Not sure how to do that, but I'm going to go back in today and see if it's obvious.

I'm also leaning toward downgrading to the 2800 because I only have a 5.1 setup. I lose some power, but that seems to be it.

I use a Niles auto speaker selector thing to have my towers hooked up to a Sonos amp and my HT. When the Denon turns off, the Sonos has the right of way to come on and off, but when the Denon turns on it overpowers Sonos. I used to have it setup with the Sonos player (no amp) into the Denon, but could not get the Denon playing the Sonos source to sync with the rest of the rooms and it drove me crazy. The living room would be a hair slower than the kitchen. Guests might not notice, but I could hear it and it destroyed all enjoyment. But I say this because the difference in sound with the denon powering the towers vs the Sonos amp is night and day better. Now I just want to use HEOS and not use my sonos.

In the app, tap 'MultiEQ Filter Frequency Range' and drag the curtain to the left to the frequency to which you want to limit correction.
 
Thanks, I took your suggestion and bought the app. It took many tries and restarting the amp, the app, and my home router (the test would fail after the second or third speaker) but it finally worked. It detected the sub and set all my levels. I disabled MidRange. The only advice I see everywhere is to disable Audyssey above 500hz or something to that effect. Not sure how to do that, but I'm going to go back in today and see if it's obvious.

I'm also leaning toward downgrading to the 2800 because I only have a 5.1 setup. I lose some power, but that seems to be it.

I use a Niles auto speaker selector thing to have my towers hooked up to a Sonos amp and my HT. When the Denon turns off, the Sonos has the right of way to come on and off, but when the Denon turns on it overpowers Sonos. I used to have it setup with the Sonos player (no amp) into the Denon, but could not get the Denon playing the Sonos source to sync with the rest of the rooms and it drove me crazy. The living room would be a hair slower than the kitchen. Guests might not notice, but I could hear it and it destroyed all enjoyment. But I say this because the difference in sound with the denon powering the towers vs the Sonos amp is night and day better. Now I just want to use HEOS and not use my sonos.
I upgraded from 2700 to 3800. Going back to 2800 would mean you downgrade Audyssey from XT32 to XT, which imho is quite a big deal. Depends on the acoustics on your room of course, and how big a role room correction plays. For me it plays a central role.

Also, I use Audyssey at full range. Easy to test though, there's a tab on your Audyssey app where you can determine the range it corrects.
 
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A couple of slight concerns is the hdmi switching and the menu switching is slower and gives me some blank screens.
I had problems with HDMI-CEC and blank screen when switching HDMI inputs. That was the reason for sending my x3800h back. Is there no improvement with recent firmware?
I wish these problems were resolved, since I can't find any good alternative for Denon.
 
I had problems with HDMI-CEC and blank screen when switching HDMI inputs. That was the reason for sending my x3800h back. Is there no improvement with recent firmware?
I wish these problems were resolved, since I can't find any good alternative for Denon.
They are infrequent but there. I would be lying if I said otherwise. When I switch to the setup button, the screen can go blank. The gui processing is better looking than the previous versions but a little bit buggy. Denon is a good brand. I am sure they will work the bugs out. My reason for giving up on the 3800 is the dacs. They are simply to clinical sounding. I bought 4500 and am so happy with the music. I will return to Denon when they get rid of the TI Dacs.
 
I own the 3800 and it replaced a comparable Denon. The discussion has mainly centered on the difference in the DAC. Denon had to go with a different vendor because AKM had a fire. Peng did an excellent job in this thread covering the difference between the two and why Amir thought that the 3800 was a downgrade from the previous model. Is there any significant difference between say the 3800 and 4800..not that I can see. I believe if you are using the internal amps you are getting the same performance. The differences in models are more about features until you get close to the Flagships. The 3800 is a good product from my viewpoint for every day performance because of the added features like 4 subs, Dirac suite, the pre amp options, etc.
A couple of slight concerns is the hdmi switching and the menu switching is slower and gives me some blank screens. That's different from my previous Denon. I also preferred the older version for music. This is subjective and means little. I do have perfect hearing, though.
I thought this was a reasonable opinion.

They are infrequent but there. I would be lying if I said otherwise. When I switch to the setup button, the screen can go blank. The gui processing is better looking than the previous versions but a little bit buggy. Denon is a good brand. I am sure they will work the bugs out. My reason for giving up on the 3800 is the dacs. They are simply to clinical sounding. I bought 4500 and am so happy with the music. I will return to Denon when they get rid of the TI Dacs.
3 days later and now the 3800 is gone and the DAC sounds "clinical"? TI DAC has nearly identical specs to the AKM DAC at 3.3V supply voltage. It's only when you raise the rail voltage to 5V that the AKM is significantly better THD+N -wise. (TI 5102A is limited to a 3.3V supply rail voltage.)
 
I don't think my statements differ to much from each other. I dislike the sound of the Ti Dacs. I said in the first statement that I like the previous version for music and it means little. In the second statement I give MY reason for giving up on the 3800 because it sounds to clinical. If you read the statement I am supportive of Denon and the product. I didn't add any weight to my subjective statement but if you want to come over and a/b the two..like I said I have perfect hearing.
 
They are infrequent but there. I would be lying if I said otherwise. When I switch to the setup button, the screen can go blank. The gui processing is better looking than the previous versions but a little bit buggy. Denon is a good brand. I am sure they will work the bugs out. My reason for giving up on the 3800 is the dacs. They are simply to clinical sounding. I bought 4500 and am so happy with the music. I will return to Denon when they get rid of the TI Dacs.
You hearing a difference between DACs is very implausible. How did you test?
 
Meaning, I have no major hearing loss that's very common for most people. When an audiologist tested my hearing I could hear very high frequencies. I don't actually think it's "perfect" but a high percentage of people having hearing loss and it gets worse as you age. I absolutely trust my hearing when listening to music and was just responding to the post. What other people think about that is thier own business. I just try to respect the process on this forum.
 
You hearing a difference between DACs is very implausible. How did you test?
It's the implementation of the dac and the output stage as well. I switched them back and forth with the same settings. You can tell me all day long it's Psychoaccoustic and we will disagree. The 4500 plays images much better the stereo image is centered and radiates much further from my speakers. I don't want to get into a subjective discussion. I gave a reason why I am dumping the product. I didn't advise anyone to and framed my reasoning as subjective.
 
It's the implementation of the dac and the output stage as well. I switched them back and forth with the same settings. You can tell me all day long it's Psychoaccoustic and we will disagree. The 4500 plays images much better the stereo image is centered and radiates much further from my speakers. I don't want to get into a subjective discussion. I gave a reason why I am dumping the product. I didn't advise anyone to and framed my reasoning as subjective.
I don't doubt the 4500 subjectively sounds better, but maybe not because of the DAC who knows. Though the question was how are you testing this?
 
only audiophiles have perfect hearing and can hear better then testing machines, closest humans to bats and moths in regards to hearing.
My hearing is defined not bat like and how do we know what it's like for a bat?
 
My hearing is defined not bat like and how do we know what it's like for a bat?

im joking a bit, but no matter what you or I think of our hearing, there are limitations that come with age.

Also, a proper hearing tests results should be posted on these claims (After all this is science based forum).

Or even, there are quite few good phone apps that do these tests while using quality headphones.
 
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