Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[Miker 1102]

I don't doubt the 4500 subjectively sounds better, but maybe not because of the DAC who knows. Though the question was how are you testing this?

By using the exact same Audyssey settings with the exact same equipment in the same room. I also ran both of them in two channel with no digital processing. They also had the same measurements in terms of speaker locations. I didn't turn on the dialog enhancement feature in the 3800. I only did this for music. I wouldn't advise anyone to make any decisions based on my own subjective experience. I was thrilled by all the features of the 3800 but disappointed in it for musicality.

 

[Abajams]

No idea. Depends on the model and impedance curves. I drove Martin Logan Sequel's (spots below 2.5 ohms, 1.6 ohms min) with the X3800H without an issue, would still be doing so but to have 11 speakers I was forced to add an amp to drive the fronts. I had hoped for some certainty before purchasing but was met with opposing viewpoints on forums like this. Since I had previously driven said ML speakers with an 80 w/ch Pioneer receiver circa 2011, I was optimistic that I could do so with the X3800H. I took a chance and it paid off, but I cannot predict how it will drive speakers I am unfamiliar with.

thanks

 

[antcollinet]

Some new toys and a confession:

The toys:

The confession: I feel a little soiled now owning an audioquest cable - and one retailing at £150, at that. My excuse was it was included in the sale for free. I tried to get them to swap it for a second pair of height speakers, but they offered the speakers for £30 and told me to keep the cable.

So, there you go.

 

[EWL5]

Some new toys and a confession:

The toys:
View attachment 341380

The confession: I feel a little soiled now owning an audioquest cable - and one retailing at £150, at that. My excuse was it was included in the sale for free. I tried to get them to swap it for a second pair of height speakers, but they offered the speakers for £30 and told me to keep the cable.

So, there you go.

The markup on those cables is insane! I have some Audioquest at home but that was with the employee discount!

I look forward to your 3800 impressions!

 

[Deleted member 21114]

The markup on those cables is insane! I have some Audioquest at home but that was with the employee discount!

Did they sell well? What percentage of people bought them?

 

[Tatr76]

Some new toys and a confession:

The toys:
View attachment 341380

The confession: I feel a little soiled now owning an audioquest cable - and one retailing at £150, at that. My excuse was it was included in the sale for free. I tried to get them to swap it for a second pair of height speakers, but they offered the speakers for £30 and told me to keep the cable.

So, there you go.

I got same deal I think, with polk speakers from Peter Tyson. Sold hdmi cable on ebay for £99 pounds which made whole deal pretty cheap. Selling them did make feel a little bad as such a con.

 

[EWL5]

Did they sell well? What percentage of people bought them?

Audioquest were and still are considered boutique cables and weren't big sellers. Usually only the folks who bought the high-end stuff were willing to bundle w/Audioquest. The mass majority of folks at the store preferred Monster cables at the time (much cheaper and arguably the same performance).

Cable marketing/packaging is like selling perfume: the fancier the look, the more expensive it is (paying more for presentation vs actual content)!

 

[antcollinet]

I got same deal I think, with polk speakers from Peter Tyson. Sold hdmi cable on ebay for £99 pounds which made whole deal pretty cheap. Selling them did make feel a little bad as such a con.

Yes, also from Peter Tyson. I considered selling it. But I'd need to get an eARC compatible cable anyway - so it doesn't seem worth the bother. I'll keep the packaging in case I change my mind.

 

[antcollinet]

I look forward to your 3800 impressions!

Well I had to spend today fixing a leak in the heating pipework, in a very uncomfortable crawlspace. So the 3800 is still packed in its box.

I did manage to find time to get the Atmos/height speakers fixed to the wall though.

 

[G-Can]

finally ran audyseyy on my 3800. Not sure I like what it did, I feel theres a lot of bass/mid bass, center speaker vocals are quiet and hard to understand, this is just first initial impressio after running few atmos demo diles I haveon my PC.

also, I have Fosi V3 with 48V PS, and audyseyy did +5Db on the fron spekaers (fosi is running these)

I read somewhere that we should turn off Midrange comensation in audyseyy app?

 

[SlaughterX]

Well I had to spend today fixing a leak in the heating pipework, in a very uncomfortable crawlspace. So the 3800 is still packed in its box.

I did manage to find time to get the Atmos/height speakers fixed to the wall though.

Ha... I just spent $700 two weeks ago fixing a leak in my crawl space, but to make things even better, I am about to drop 5k on the clean up of said leak. I'm keeping my 6700 tho, and I will be keeping a better eye on the goings on in my crawl space, probably.

 

[Miker 1102]

finally ran audyseyy on my 3800. Not sure I like what it did, I feel theres a lot of bass/mid bass, center speaker vocals are quiet and hard to understand, this is just first initial impressio after running few atmos demo diles I haveon my PC.

also, I have Fosi V3 with 48V PS, and audyseyy did +5Db on the fron spekaers (fosi is running these)

I read somewhere that we should turn off Midrange comensation in audyseyy app?

Yes. I found the same. The vocals were weak. I believe that is why they added that vocal enhancement feature..it sounded unnatural me tho, like it messed up the eq when used. . You can turn off mid range compensation with the 20 dollar app. You can also correct the range which Audyssey adjusts by using the curtains only up to the first reflection around about 300hz and under. You can also use the sound curve feature to add some boost around where you cross the speakers over. This all helps the sound quite a bit. I never found a way to adjust the 3800 to my musical.likikg despite using the same Audyssey settings. It sounds like you have some work to try with the 3800 yet. I also turn everything off like dymaic eq.

 

[napfkuchen]

Unfortunately, the Dirac integration on the X3800 is apparently not 100% perfect from a user perspective. After upgrading to the latest firmware and Dirac 3.8.2, some users experience zeroed speaker distances in the settings, similar to the quick settings error. I myself have been fighting against the "imprecise" errors when measuring for DLBC for a while. There is also the problem that the front USB does not provide enough juice for the UMIK-1. But I'm happy with the results so far, especially the bass distribution has improved.
However, after some stereo comparison listening, I came to the conclusion that other front speakers would still make sense as an upgrade. Dirac can do a lot, but it also can't "transform" the speakers.

 

[antcollinet]

Ha... I just spent $700 two weeks ago fixing a leak in my crawl space, but to make things even better, I am about to drop 5k on the clean up of said leak. I'm keeping my 6700 tho, and I will be keeping a better eye on the goings on in my crawl space, probably.

Well I spent about £60 on parts and a day of my time. The tradeoff of DIY. And fortunately this leak was only above an outside porch, so no significant damage done. The wood panel "ceiling" of the porch is discoloured slightly at one edge, but we wanted to replace that anyway - which I'll do when the weather is nicer.

 

[Moonbase]

Unfortunately, the Dirac integration on the X3800 is apparently not 100% perfect from a user perspective. After upgrading to the latest firmware and Dirac 3.8.2, some users experience zeroed speaker distances in the settings, similar to the quick settings error. I myself have been fighting against the "imprecise" errors when measuring for DLBC for a while. There is also the problem that the front USB does not provide enough juice for the UMIK-1. But I'm happy with the results so far, especially the bass distribution has improved.
However, after some stereo comparison listening, I came to the conclusion that other front speakers would still make sense as an upgrade. Dirac can do a lot, but it also can't "transform" the speakers.

Welcome to Dirac, I have been using Dirac for many years and there has always been niggling errors. Anyway care is needed when choosing speakers, ideally they are all the same, but at lease the same sensitivity, as Dirac uses the least sensitive speaker as a reference

 

[peng]

Yes. I found the same. The vocals were weak. I believe that is why they added that vocal enhancement feature..it sounded unnatural me tho, like it messed up the eq when used. . You can turn off mid range compensation with the 20 dollar app. You can also correct the range which Audyssey adjusts by using the curtains only up to the first reflection around about 300hz and under. You can also use the sound curve feature to add some boost around where you cross the speakers over. This all helps the sound quite a bit. I never found a way to adjust the 3800 to my musical.likikg despite using the same Audyssey settings. It sounds like you have some work to try with the 3800 yet. I also turn everything off like dymaic eq.

It seems that a lot of people like the way the 3800 "sound", so I have to ask, how sure are you that your perceived sound quality issue is in fact due to the 3800 and not other things? I asked, because while measurements Amir provided do not cover everything that could conceivably contribute to your perceived issues, the extensive tests really did not show anything that could contribute to the vocal weakness that you and surely some other users perceived, and again many didn't perceive the same.

In my experience, vocals in movies have never been great regardless of any of the AVRs/AVPs I have used in the last 10 or more years, but it does seem that it is getting worse with the advanced formats from the plain 5.1, 7.1 to 5.1.4, 7.1.4, 9.1.6, and from DDTHD to Atmos, DTS:X etc. I believe the biggest factor is the recording/mastering itself, just like for music, recoding/mastering quality trumps the quality of mid to flagship level AVRs/AVPs/speaker. In order of importance, in my opinion, people often get their pripority misplaced, they should be focus more on recording/mastering quality, followed by room acoustics, speakers, and then the electronic stuff. Obviously that assumes people already have very decent speakers and are shopping for mid range and higher AVRs, AVPs, preamp/dacs, and power amps. I consider the X3800H the starting point of "midrange" AVR, ommv.

 

[FrantzM]

Voice intelligibility seems to be an industry-wide weakness. Not much attention seems to be paid in the intelligibility of dialogues or relative levels. You want to watch most any actio-movie, blockbuster type, you raise the volume to make sense of the dialogue ... before you know it you have to jump to lower the overall volume, or less you destroy your hearing and speakers... now you can't hear the dialogue whether there is action or not ... unless you turn on cc .. if that last one is any accurate...
It is serious issue and I find it strange that Hollywood has not addressed it seriously.. Yes, you Christopher Nolan , you should know better...

I don't think that the AVR have to do anything with that aspect of sound reproduction...

Peace.

 

[EWL5]

If dialogue is an issue, then seriously consider Dirac Live as it makes things much more intelligible (no comment on DLBC as I neither have it or plan to add it).

 

[antcollinet]

Voice intelligibility seems to be an industry-wide weakness. Not much attention seems to be paid in the intelligibility of dialogues or relative levels. You want to watch most any actio-movie, blockbuster type, you raise the volume to make sense of the dialogue ... before you know it you have to jump to lower the overall volume, or less you destroy your hearing and speakers... now you can't hear the dialogue whether there is action or not ... unless you turn on cc .. if that last one is any accurate...
It is serious issue and I find it strange that Hollywood has not addressed it seriously.. Yes, you Christopher Nolan , you should know better...

I don't think that the AVR have to do anything with that aspect of sound reproduction...

Peace.

The 3800 has a dynamic range compression function which will bring up the level of quieter sounds without increasing louder ones.

I haven't tried it yet.

 

[Miker 1102]

It seems that a lot of people like the way the 3800 "sound", so I have to ask, how sure are you that your perceived sound quality issue is in fact due to the 3800 and not other things? I asked, because while measurements Amir provided do not cover everything that could conceivably contribute to your perceived issues, the extensive tests really did not show anything that could contribute to the vocal weakness that you and surely some other users perceived, and again many didn't perceive the same.

In my experience, vocals in movies have never been great regardless of any of the AVRs/AVPs I have used in the last 10 or more years, but it does seem that it is getting worse with the advanced formats from the plain 5.1, 7.1 to 5.1.4, 7.1.4, 9.1.6, and from DDTHD to Atmos, DTS:X etc. I believe the biggest factor is the recording/mastering itself, just like for music, recoding/mastering quality trumps the quality of mid to flagship level AVRs/AVPs/speaker. In order of importance, in my opinion, people often get their pripority misplaced, they should be focus more on recording/mastering quality, followed by room acoustics, speakers, and then the electronic stuff. Obviously that assumes people already have very decent speakers and are shopping for mid range and higher AVRs, AVPs, preamp/dacs, and power amps. I consider the X3800H the starting point of "midrange" AVR, ommv.

I am old Peng and have had an HTPC for almost 20 years and have a large collection of 5.1 mixes by guys like Steve Wilson and have been searching out good masters forever. I have excellent remasters of Yes, Tull,Rush by Wilson that are excellent in multichannel. I has some very cool SACDs for Tchaikovsky that I also love . As far as my perceived subjective assessment of the sound, there were lots of other reviewers that have heard the same things as me . The 3800, to me, has a noticeable audible difference ..especially in vocals with music.I try to avoid even mentioning the subjective because it lack objectivity and is frowned upon in the forum. My slight skepticism comes from the folks who are constantly telling me me i cant hear a differnce own 10k dollar pre pros and denapfris dacs. . I have an appointment to listen to Anthem from people I have met who "subjectively" introduced me to the product. I am actually going this listen to some moon (Canada?) Audio this week, as well. I appreciate your efforts to convince me of my Psychoaccoustical error. Even if I am wrong and the 3800 sounds exactly like every other product, my subjective experience is I found it fatiguing from music with the same settings and equipment. I don't want to run afoul of ASR protocols and I think the 3800 product is fine for film. Should I ignore my own experience, however? As far as testing goes, everybody has a different room and it's impossible to give accurate measurements. I could definitely tell there is some recessed sound to the musical vocals on the 3800 then I would being disingenuous if I didnt mention it.. But I will defer others from now in to the original review, which Amir doesn't recommend the 3800. I really appreciate your reasoned responses and have learned a great deal from reading your posts and especially from you pushing reading the manuals. The manuals are vey important. Thank you very much for always taking the time to try and help folks like myself.