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Denon AVR-X3800H is released.

Masza

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Any algorithm can be implemented on a microprocessor as long as the processor speed and its accessible memory are enough for it. It doesn’t matter if Dirac runs on a PC, because you can interpret any code to run on any appropriate programmable processor which is when firmware updates come into the picture to reprogram the microcontroller. Actually, it might even run faster on the device than your PC, since your PC is doing a lot of background tasks to service GUI, file system interrupts, complicated multi core memory management and allocations, and … to name a few.
That doesn't change the fact that Dirac doesn't calculate filters with the microcontroller of the device.

A firmware upgrade to the device itself doesn't make the code which runs in PC executable with the microcontroller of the device. But it could contain the code modified so that it can be executed with that microcontroller.

AV devices are prone to low performance microcontrollers. Menus and operations are slow. Rarely does a modern PC struggle with these issues even if its under higher load. But yes, if the device would have a powerful microcontroller then it could be even faster in some operations.

Fortunately the DSP chips in these devices are cabable of applying filters (doing arithmetic calculations) fast enough.
 

CyrusTheGreat_600BC

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That doesn't change the fact that Dirac doesn't calculate filters with the microcontroller of the device.

A firmware upgrade to the device itself doesn't make the code which runs in PC executable with the microcontroller of the device. But it could contain the code modified so that it can be executed with that microcontroller.

AV devices are prone to low performance microcontrollers. Menus and operations are slow. Rarely does a modern PC struggle with these issues even if its under higher load. But yes, if the device would have a powerful microcontroller then it could be even faster in some operations.

Fortunately the DSP chips in these devices are cabable of applying filters (doing arithmetic calculations) fast enough.
Menus are slow because GUI requires GPU and these devices don’t have one. Dirac algorithm will be rewritten for that particular processor, and it can be as fast as the PC if done correctly. It’s not calculation in 10+ dimensional space or MonteCarlo estimation to calculate the fusion of atomic bomb.
 

onion

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Just hooked one of these up to my cinema room setup. My previous Anthem MRX 1120 blew a circuit board.

Even without Audyssey calibration, this runs rings around the Anthem and also an Arcam AVR850 that was a stopgap measure and usually lives in another room. I'm shocked at how much clearer the audio is.
 
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peng

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Just hooked one of these up to my cinema room setup. My previous Anthem MRX 1120 blew a circuit board.

Even without Audyssey calibration, this runs rings around the Anthem and also an Arcam AVR850 that was a stopgap measure and usually lives in another room. I'm shocked at how much clearer the audio is.

Congrats and good to know the X3800H has happy owners! No doubt many Anthem MRX1120 would say their units sounded clearer than Denon's though lol.., so much for subjective measurements by ears/brains!
 
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CyrusTheGreat_600BC

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Congrats and good to know the X3800H has happy owners! No doubt many Anthem MRX1120 would say their units wound clearer than Denon's though lol.., so much for subjective measurements by ears/brains!
In the absence of One True God, there shall be infinite deities.

@amirm where art thou? Forsaken land, forsaken times.
 

peng

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Not a chance. The 3800 sounds very clear. No coloration.

I bet it measures at least as good as the 6700h

There is always a possibility that it measures as good or even better in some way, but it does not seem possible for its preamp/dac output to measure better in terms of SINAD because the DAC IC itself have much lower SINAD. That's just facts, based on the datasheets. As for "coloration", I would agree that even the PCM5102A's 92 dB SINAD would indicate that if implemented well it should be transparent. So there is no surprise that you perceived no coloration.
 

Brian6751

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There is always a possibility that it measures as good or even better in some way, but it does not seem possible for its preamp/dac output to measure better in terms of SINAD because the DAC IC itself have much lower SINAD. That's just facts, based on the datasheets. As for "coloration", I would agree that even the PCM5102A's 92 dB SINAD would indicate that if implemented well it should be transparent. So there is no surprise that you perceived no coloration.
That makes sense. For me, once SINAD gets into the 90's, it gets very difficult to tell if one DAC is "more transparent" than the other
 

HarmonicTHD

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That makes sense. For me, once SINAD gets into the 90's, it gets very difficult to tell if one DAC is "more transparent" than the other
Not only for you ;-)

 

Narnian

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Based on the Crutchfield web page for this AVR:

32-Bit/192kHz DACs: For optimum fidelity and the widest dynamic range with lowest distortion, the AVR-X3800H features advanced TI (Texas Instruments) 32-bit/192kHz digital-to-analog converters (DACs) on all channels. This ensures consistent high fidelity and precise channel matching across all channels for the ultimate listening experience.
 

peng

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Based on the Crutchfield web page for this AVR:

32-Bit/192kHz DACs: For optimum fidelity and the widest dynamic range with lowest distortion, the AVR-X3800H features advanced TI (Texas Instruments) 32-bit/192kHz digital-to-analog converters (DACs) on all channels. This ensures consistent high fidelity and precise channel matching across all channels for the ultimate listening experience.

That's marketing talking, but given that most people likely won't hear a difference between those two DAC ICs, they are probably right at least to a point. Subjective perception of "sound quality" aside, the fact is, of all the TI DAC IC Denon and Marantz have ever used, the PCM5102A is at or near the bottom, in terms of SINAD and SNR/DR. Other TI DAC ICs they had used in the past include the PCM1791, 1690, and 1795. Some examples: 1791 for the Denon AVR-3805, 3806, 3808, 4306, 4308, 4800, 1690 for the AVR-X5200W, 1795 for the AVR-4520, AV8801.

This piece is only 1 dB better than the PCM5101 used for zone 2/3 DAC, though it has much better SNR (6 dB better). It's not necessarily about audibility, but why down grade so much? I can only guess cost is the only reason. I wonder if D+M got a great deal from TI for the large number they were going to purchase. There will be at least 8 pieces of the DAC IC (PCM5102S PCM5102A) per X3800H, more for the higher models, even more for the X6800H and SR8015.
 
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The difference in price between the AKM and TI is only $1.50 @ 2k pcs. Difference in performance, if I'm reading the datasheets correctly is negligible at 3.3V analog voltage. It's only a 5V analog voltage that AKM has an advantage.

AKM (3.3V):
1666903983732.png


TI (3.3V):
1666904137745.png


AKM (5.0V):
1666904219724.png


I know nothing about these DACs, am I reading these specs correctly?
 

lc6

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This piece is only 1 dB better than the PCM5101 used for zone 2/3 DAC, though it has much better SNR (6 dB better). It's not necessarily about audibility, but why down grade so much? I can only guess cost is the only reason. I wonder if D+M got a great deal from TI for the large number they were going to purchase. There will be at least 8 pieces of the DAC IC (PCM5102S) per X3800H, more for the higher models, even more for the X6800H and SR8015.

The PCM5102A (can't find a 5102S) is a stereo part, so are you saying both DACs in each chip are used per one AVR channel in some kind of an interleaved oversampling mode?
In qty. 100, the price of this part is about $4.50-4.90, compared to about $24.80 for ESS9026PRO, which has 8 channels and is used in the A6A/A8A. So if indeed at least 8 PCM5102As are used in the 3800H, it must have been a very sweet deal, or there was an insufficient availability of the ESS part for the expected production volume of this AVR.
 

amirm

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@amirm where art thou? Forsaken land, forsaken times.
I am assuming you have seen the review by now. I only got the unit a couple of weeks ago. I ran a few test and the had to run them by Denon which took a few days. Then I had to find the time to test the remining parts which is very time consuming with AVRs. So this is the earliest you could have the review.
 

voodooless

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In qty. 100, the price of this part is about $4.504.90, compared to about $24.80 for ESS9026PRO, which has 8 channels and is used in the A6A/A8A. So if indeed at least 8 PCM5102As are used in the 3800H, it must have been a very sweet deal, or there was an insufficient availability of the ESS part for the expected production volume of this AVR.
At 8 per unit, 100 pieces is just 12 AVR’s. Pricing at TI themselves is already down to $ 2.58 at 1k. At 10k that will drop some more. Can’t find higher volume prices for the ESS. In the end the price difference is a few $ on the chips alone. The ESS needs more power supply components though. That adds more cost.
 
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