Denon AVR-X3800H ext. AMP

[StuartKevinBob]

Hello there!

I started reading here a while ago and only here got into contact with (ext.) DACs and their performance and almost fell into a rabbithole...

Now to my question: I want to upgrade my audio setup (see below) and need an external amp at some point since i am adding 2 more speakers which the AVR cannot amplify and have the feeling it is already struggling with 9 speakers at movie volume.

Signal setup 50:50
Movies: Apple TV -> X3800H (mostly Auro 3D) -> LG C4
Music: Apple Music -> iPad -> SMSL SU-1 -> X3800H (pure direct)

Speaker setup - currently 7.1.2 with front height 30 degree
FL/FR: Nubert 513 floorstanding
C: Nubert CS-413 bookshelf bassreflex
SL/SR: Nubert 313 bookshelf bassreflex
SBL/SBR: Nubert 103 wall-mount
FHL/FHR: Nubert 103 wall-mount
Sub: Nubert 443, soon to be replaced by 1-2 XTZ Sub 10.17 edge because of repeated mafunctions

My goal is to add Back Height speakers, i.e. move the surround backs to back height and add Nubert 313 to be surround back.

Budget is about 700€ (living in germany), so naturally these scenarios come into play:

1) Keep existing chain and get stereo power amp for FL/FR (maybe C later) with small footprint like Audiophonics MPA-M250NC 2x250W NCore NC252MP

AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC RCA Power Amplifier Class D Stereo Ncore NC252MP 2x250W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

The Audiophonics MPA-S252NC XLR is a stereo amplifier based on an amplification module Hypex Ncore NC252MP. This solution is ideal for anyone who wants to have a large power reserve (2x150W) without sacrificing sound reproduction quality.

www.audiophonics.fr

Pro: cheap and neat @480€
Con: only RCA possible, still feeding through AVR (which gets warm even in idle)

2) Get an integrated AMP (with the same output stage) to be directly fed by SMSL DU-1 and with HT bypass, like
Audiophonics AP310-P250NC NCore NC252MP

AUDIOPHONICS AP310-P250NC Integrated Amplifier NCore NC252MP

Versatile and powerful, we offer you with AP310-P250NC an integrated amplifier with analog inputs to which you can add speakers to enjoy your music in the best possible way.

www.audiophonics.fr

Pro: no detour for music, with optional upgrade to XLR music chain
Con: +170€ compared to M250C (@650€), requires more space

Thoughts?

Will the Denon change (worsen) anything for analog-in -> Denon with Pure Direct -> pre-out?

Will the FL/FR external amp be an improvement even if i do not add more speakers?

Can i even save more money by adding an even cheaper Power AMP to the rear heights because all other efforts wouldn't be audible?

Thank you in advance!

 

[napfkuchen]

Welcome!

Thoughts?

My choice would be the cheaper option. Your ears won't notice the difference.

Will the Denon change (worsen) anything for analog-in -> Denon with Pure Direct -> pre-out?

Why skip room correction? That's the best feature of the X3800. Room correction is especially useful with multiple subwoofers. So, first of all, please deactivate "pure direct". Then, at least use the audyssey app. Maybe also Dirac Live is an option for you (black friday deals?).
For stereo, I'd also recommend trying out the Denon's Auro3D upmixer. It broadens the stereo image a bit, I personally like it much better.
And for Apple Music, since you already own an iPad, upgrading to an AppleTV is the next step. Then you can control the AppleTV with your iPad even with the TV switched off. The catalog of titles with Dolby Atmos sound is very extensive and diverse on Apple Music.

Will the FL/FR external amp be an improvement even if i do not add more speakers?

Can i even save more money by adding an even cheaper Power AMP to the rear heights because all other efforts wouldn't be audible?

An additional amp does not alter the sound, unless it is "broken".

 

[antcollinet]

Will the Denon change (worsen) anything for analog-in -> Denon with Pure Direct -> pre-out?

Not audibly.

Will the FL/FR external amp be an improvement even if i do not add more speakers?

Only if you are currently running out of power and causing the 3800 to clip. I've considered doing this - but in reality I'd just be spending money, and increasing complexity for no audible benefit.

Can i even save more money by adding an even cheaper Power AMP to the rear heights because all other efforts wouldn't be audible?

Possibly - but I would always put the external amplification on front L/R (C) since that is where the majority of the power goes.



I have a 3800 - set up as 5.1.4 (no surround back). If I wanted to add the extra channels I'd go for option 1 with power amp connected to pre-out. Though I'd be adding the Fosi V3 mono into the decision tree also.

 

[StuartKevinBob]

Thanks for the welcome and the reply!

Why skip room correction? That's the best feature of the X3800. Room correction is especially useful with multiple subwoofers.

I like the sound as it is with pure direct. The frontspeakers are full bandwidth so no sub "needed" right now. But i agree, that this is a general option, although it remains an option regardless of the choice (front will always get signal from the denon).

For stereo, I'd also recommend trying out the Denon's Auro3D upmixer. It broadens the stereo image a bit, I personally like it much better.

Done that but sounds "unnatural" to me. I really just do prefer stereo.

And for Apple Music, since you already own an iPad, upgrading to an AppleTV is the next step. Then you can control the AppleTV with your iPad even with the TV switched off. The catalog of titles with Dolby Atmos sound is very extensive and diverse on Apple Music.

I am using an Apple TV 4K 128 GB (2023?) for video content. But my music taste (progressive, death, doom, black and stoner metal) does not seem to be affected by the immersive audio trend. Another thing is that i do not see the point in running the TV all day long if i just want to listen to music. The iPad functions basically as a digital turntable: it stays in place and if i want to change music i can go there and do so.

An additional amp does not alter the sound, unless it is "broken".

Yeah, but there are differences in ouput power, assuming anything besides LCR will need less (average) power. Also the options will look different in the living room, meaning an integrated amp will have its place on the lowboard, whereas a rear amp will move behind the seating area (invisible). Small monos or a pure power amp could be hidden somewhere near the speakers.

 

[StuartKevinBob]

Not audibly.

Good to hear (pun intended)!

Only if you are currently running out of power and causing the 3800 to clip. I've considered doing this - but in reality I'd just be spending money, and increasing complexity for no audible benefit.

This seemed to be the case in one scenario but usually i do not turn on the volume that much (i wanted to show off).

Possibly - but I would always put the external amplification on front L/R (C) since that is where the majority of the power goes.

Agree.

I have a 3800 - set up as 5.1.4 (no surround back). If I wanted to add the extra channels I'd go for option 1 with power amp connected to pre-out. Though I'd be adding the Fosi V3 mono into the decision tree also.

Seems to be my conclusion as well!

 

[napfkuchen]

I am using an Apple TV 4K 128 GB (2023?) for video content. But my music taste (progressive, death, doom, black and stoner metal) does not seem to be affected by the immersive audio trend.

The immersive audio tracks were not my favorites to begin with, but why not try out s.th. new?

Another thing is that i do not see the point in running the TV all day long if i just want to listen to music.

With AppleTV and iPad the tv can remain switched off if you just want to listen to music. The iPad is used as an AppleTV-remote.