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Denon AVR x3700H Bass Management and Integration

Sprint

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#1
Hi ASR experts,

Currently I have Genelec surround set up 8340 and 8330 measured by GLM, with 2 SVS SB-12 NSD subs run by Yamaha RX-V775. My Yamahas and SVS subs were brought in 2014. The YPAO does a mediocre job in sub integration especially for 2 channel music. Movies are still fine. Ofcourse the best integration with subs will be with Genelec subs but a pair of 12" subs (7370) will be over 5,5K euros. Many have recommended that the Genelec subs are overpriced and one can achieve sonic qualities with other non-genelec subs.

One option is to go for minidsp DDRC24 bass management for sub integration only (still use GLM for Genelec monitors) but based on @amirm the new Audyssey in x3700 is quite close to DIRAC measurements. Hence based on response in another thread raised by me, I am tending towards buying a Denon x3700H

So my questions to the experts are the following:

  • Is anyone using x3700 with active speakers and using Denon's Audyssey for subwoofer measurements and integration alone? Hows your experience and how's the ease of set up?
  • How to turn off the Audyssey for speakers and switch it on only for subwoofers?
  • Does Audyssey measure individual subwoofers (I have a pair) or does it do collectively?
  • some Subwoofer companies like SVS, Arendal and Nubert in Europe (live in Europe) offer App based subwoofer measurements and corrections? Are they better than Audyssey app or how different are they?
Above all, I am looking for a step up from my current set up which is good but want to make it even better.

Appreciate your insights and input to help in my decision.
 
Last edited:

Steve Dallas

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#2
Hi ASR experts,

Currently I have Genelec surround set up 8340 and 8330 measured by GLM, with 2 SVS SB-12 NSD subs run by Yamaha RX-V775. My Yamahas and SVS subs were brought in 2014. The YPAO does a mediocre job in sub integration especially for 2 channel music. Movies are still fine. Ofcourse the best integration with subs will be with Genelec subs but a pair of 12" subs (7370) will be over 5,5K euros. Many have recommended that the Genelec subs are overpriced and one can achieve sonic qualities with other non-genelec subs.

One option is to go for minidsp DDRC24 bass management for sub integration only (still use GLM for Genelec monitors) but based on @amirm the new Audyssey in x3700 is quite close to DIRAC measurements. Hence based on response in another thread raised by me, I am tending towards buying a Denon x3700H

So my questions to the experts are the following:

  • Is anyone using x3700 with active speakers and using Denon's Audyssey for subwoofer measurements and integration alone? Hows your experience and how's the ease of set up?
  • How to turn off the Audyssey for speakers and switch it on only for subwoofers?
  • Does Audyssey measure individual subwoofers (I have a pair) or does it do collectively?
  • some Subwoofer companies like SVS, Arendal and Nubert in Europe (live in Europe) offer App based subwoofer measurements and corrections? Are they better than Audyssey app or how different are they?
Above all, I am looking for a step up from my current set up which is good but want to make it even better.

Appreciate your insights and input to help in my decision.
I am not an Expert, but I will try to answer your questions. I have the 4700H. I had a Yamaha A3060, and I like the 4700 much better.

1. I do not have active speakers, but I use the 4700 in preamp mode to drive external amps. I do use Audyssey for bass management and sub integration, and it works very well--MUCH better than Yamaha's YPAO. I imagine a Denon receiver would excel at driving active speakers, and as active speakers and subs have some latency due to their ADC / DSP, / DAC, the receiver would be desirable for time aligning every component.
2. To turn off Audyssey for the front pair, download the MultiEQ app and set the Filter Frequency Range for the front pair to 20Hz.
3. Audyssey measures the subs individually for level and distance, but applies the same correction to all of them.
4. I have no experience with DSP settings in subwoofer amps, as mine are all older SVS models with fixed DSP settings.

Here are before and after in-room measurements in my very bad (cube-shaped) listening room / home theater. This is a pair of Revel F206 and a pair of SVS SB-2000 subs. The 4700 is in preamp mode driving a Peachtree Nova 150 in home theater bypass mode:

Before Audyssey:
Revel F206 Stereo Uncorrected 124 Smoothing.png


After Audyssey (correction limited to 1KHz):
Revel F206 Stereo Corrected to 1000Hz Audyssey.png
 
OP
Sprint

Sprint

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Thread Starter #3
I am not an Expert, but I will try to answer your questions. I have the 4700H. I had a Yamaha A3060, and I like the 4700 much better.

1. I do not have active speakers, but I use the 4700 in preamp mode to drive external amps. I do use Audyssey for bass management and sub integration, and it works very well--MUCH better than Yamaha's YPAO. I imagine a Denon receiver would excel at driving active speakers, and as active speakers and subs have some latency due to their ADC / DSP, / DAC, the receiver would be desirable for time aligning every component.
2. To turn off Audyssey for the front pair, download the MultiEQ app and set the Filter Frequency Range for the front pair to 20Hz.
3. Audyssey measures the subs individually for level and distance, but applies the same correction to all of them.
4. I have no experience with DSP settings in subwoofer amps, as mine are all older SVS models with fixed DSP settings.

Here are before and after in-room measurements in my very bad (cube-shaped) listening room / home theater. This is a pair of Revel F206 and a pair of SVS SB-2000 subs. The 4700 is in preamp mode driving a Peachtree Nova 150 in home theater bypass mode:

Before Audyssey:
View attachment 95286

After Audyssey (correction limited to 1KHz):
View attachment 95287
@Steve Dallas Thanks a lot for sharing your detailed experiences. Few more questions to get more understanding:

1. When you mean Denon receiver for active speakers, you are referring to x3700 or 4700h, correct? Or are you referring to another Denon receiver? As far as I know, Denon does not have a AVR with balanced outs that actives need.

2. Can I turn off Audyssey for all my 5 Genelec speakers as I plan to use GLM and use Audyssey for only subwoofer corrections/bass management? If yes, how can I do that?

Nice to know that you have SB-2000. Mine is SVS Sb-12nsd, also a 12" sub brought in 2014.

For 2 channel stereo, I see that Denon is much better than Yamaha? Correct? How is it in surround?

My existing Yamaha AVR775 is good for movies but does not do a good job for 2 channel or multichannel music.
How is multi channel in Denon?
 

Steve Dallas

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#4
@Steve Dallas Thanks a lot for sharing your detailed experiences. Few more questions to get more understanding:

1. When you mean Denon receiver for active speakers, you are referring to x3700 or 4700h, correct? Or are you referring to another Denon receiver? As far as I know, Denon does not have a AVR with balanced outs that actives need.

2. Can I turn off Audyssey for all my 5 Genelec speakers as I plan to use GLM and use Audyssey for only subwoofer corrections/bass management? If yes, how can I do that?

Nice to know that you have SB-2000. Mine is SVS Sb-12nsd, also a 12" sub brought in 2014.

For 2 channel stereo, I see that Denon is much better than Yamaha? Correct? How is it in surround?

My existing Yamaha AVR775 is good for movies but does not do a good job for 2 channel or multichannel music.
How is multi channel in Denon?
1. Yes. I mean the 3700 or 4700. Balanced out is desirable, especially for long cable runs, but not strictly necessary.

2. Yes. Each speaker has its own screen in the MultiEQ app. You can effectively turn Audyssey off by setting the frequency limit to 20 Hz for each speaker.

3? Denons measure better than Yamahas, and Audyssey is objectively a better tool than YPAO, but I did not notice a huge difference for movies. I ran YPAO a few times and did not like the results. Fortunately, Yamaha gives the user direct access to the PEQ settings, so I used my measurement mic and REW to manually set up each speaker. It was tedious, but I was able to achieve good results, although not as good as what Audyssey can do. Since I do not listen critically during movies, I did not notice much of a difference.

4? By multichannel, do you mean multichannel mixes on some DVD ans BRDs? Or do you mean stereo to multichannel conversion? I'm afraid I do not have much of an answer either way. The surrounds are usually fed crowd noise and reverberation by multichannel mixes, and I prefer stereo to that experience. I never listen to stereo converted to multichannel, so I have no opinion on that.
 

Bear123

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#5
Audyssey will independently measure level and distance/delay for each sub, but, as it should, will eq the combined response of both subs as one unit.

Not aware that you can turn off Audyssey for the speakers and allow only sub eq. The app allows to you limit the frequency range for correction on the speakers if this helps, but not sure what the lower limit is.

I'd probably take a close look at Arendal for subs if I lived in Europe.
 
OP
Sprint

Sprint

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Thread Starter #6
1. Yes. I mean the 3700 or 4700. Balanced out is desirable, especially for long cable runs, but not strictly necessary.

2. Yes. Each speaker has its own screen in the MultiEQ app. You can effectively turn Audyssey off by setting the frequency limit to 20 Hz for each speaker.

3? Denons measure better than Yamahas, and Audyssey is objectively a better tool than YPAO, but I did not notice a huge difference for movies. I ran YPAO a few times and did not like the results. Fortunately, Yamaha gives the user direct access to the PEQ settings, so I used my measurement mic and REW to manually set up each speaker. It was tedious, but I was able to achieve good results, although not as good as what Audyssey can do. Since I do not listen critically during movies, I did not notice much of a difference.

4? By multichannel, do you mean multichannel mixes on some DVD ans BRDs? Or do you mean stereo to multichannel conversion? I'm afraid I do not have much of an answer either way. The surrounds are usually fed crowd noise and reverberation by multichannel mixes, and I prefer stereo to that experience. I never listen to stereo converted to multichannel, so I have no opinion on that.
@Steve Dallas Thanks! Thats helps a lot.

yes, I meant stereo to multichannel. My YPAO does a lousy job with 2ch music when it comes to sub integration. I am really looking forward to x3700H after reading the satisfied results that you had with Denon on sub integration for 2ch music. Most likely I will not go for multichannel then. I was not happy with Yamaha for multichannel as well.

BTW for my application I assume 3700h will do the job right. I mean I may not need 4700H correct?
 
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Sprint

Sprint

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Thread Starter #7
Audyssey will independently measure level and distance/delay for each sub, but, as it should, will eq the combined response of both subs as one unit.

Not aware that you can turn off Audyssey for the speakers and allow only sub eq. The app allows to you limit the frequency range for correction on the speakers if this helps, but not sure what the lower limit is.

I'd probably take a close look at Arendal for subs if I lived in Europe.
Thanks a lot! If I do not use Audyssey, does Arendal allows subwoofer corrections with its app? I will rather open a new thread for subwoofer recommendations.
 

peng

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#9
I believe the Bypass L/R setting allows you to correct only the subs.
Yes it definitely bypass L/R, but if the surround and height speakers are used, it will EQ them all. Front L/R bypass literally only let Audyssey to NOT EQ front left/right, but will still EQ all other channel speakers.
 
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