Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Atlantis089]

I agree that adding an additional box, especially for video games, gives rise to concerns about concessions. But between nothing at all, the first solution considered even worse and the box, I prefer the box. A recall of all amps with replacement of faulty hdmi cards would have been a huge financial drain on them I think.

As for manufacturing in Vietnam, I won't comment because I'm not sure the 3700h model I own is made in Japan.

 

[McFly]

I've gone through a similar transition with my Denon X3700H, only to a 3.1 system. I think you'll find eARC is going to work better for your Netflix app than the optical audio out.

What are you using for speakers at the moment? I would advise adding a center channel.

First of all, I don't use the center channel on my audio CDs. I find it obtrusive and does not image as well as having it off. In addition my Totem Arro's L+R speakers list at $2000 CDN a pair while the centre channel was $650 CDN, so not quite in the same league.

Totally different story on Netflix. I put on the 'Formula 1' series and with the center channel present, the voices are much clearer isolated on the center channel versus down mixing into stereo. And the sonal background is much more impressive. The 5.1 sound for that series has been engineered very carefully and really suffers when you downmix to stereo. The fact that the centre channel isn't at the level of the L+R does not matter because of how the center channel is being used. I mean we're talking badly recorded people talking while walking with race cars in the background. Lots of oomph, but it's not like hearing a Mozart violin concerto.

I have gone with the philosophy of trying to present the original source sound to the Denon receiver so that I can control the sound all in one spot.

I have not been affected by the downmixing bug, and to be honest, I don't have a thorough understanding of when or how it would come into play. I've been told by some people that it might affect me, and by others that it won't. So far, it hasn't and I've done lots of testing.

I could say more about the transition. After all I wrote 2000+ words on it, (link below). But hopefully this helps a bit. Happy to discuss this further though.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...he-denon-x3700h-avr-and-center-channel.22932/

Thanks for this insight. I'm aware of the benefit of the Center channel, I came from a 5.1 setup - which is now in the basement. The new house where I want this AVR is already well prewired for a centrally wall mounted TV and stereo speakers (even in 4core behind the L/R speaker wall plates), but rather minimalist with no Center speaker cabling. Theres HDMI, CAT6, trigger and toslink cabling back to a cupboard in another room.

Googling "AVR downmixing to stereo", it seems like this could be a deep-rooted problem that's been ignored for ages, as my situation would likely be rare. People reporting high noise floors using 2 channels with multi channel sources. I may at some point add some surround speakers, but the setup really doesn't invite a center channel, as the wall is bare with only the TV and L/R towers visible, we dont want a cabinet below the TV. Great room for stereo listening.

I get a major improvement in dialogue clarity by switching the netflix audio track to 2.0 channel. The current problem seems to be any streaming service we watch is by default broadcasting 5.1 to my current 2.0 integrated DAC, as the Sony TV is reporting to the streaming app that I am outputting to a "audio system", and that it is 5.1 channel. The only other option is "TV speakers" and I can confirm Netflix defaults to 2 channel audio track when I use the in-built Sony TV speakers, which sound tinny. I cannot change any Sony settings to force the optical out to 2 channel (only option is to force audio to PCM and not send Dolby Digital, doesn't specify channels).

The Denon would also work nice with my CD player for stereo listening as this is analogue in and out. Also a nice future-proof feature - the preamp out gives me the option of active speakers with a miniDSP.

A solution might still be to let the source player downmix the channels. The receiver will then receive the appropriate number of channels without having to downmix.

I'm sure it would be fine with stereo content over HDMI as 2 channels in, 2 channels out. But if the Sony gets 5.1 content it will send 5.1 content to whatever "audio system" is attached. Down-mixing or forcing a stereo track cannot be done by the Sony TV settings, unless the source content is chosen as 2.0.

I guess the only way to confirm is to drag my old AVR up here and see if I can hear a difference between netflix 5.1 and netflix 2.0 , AVR forced to L/R channels only. Maybe try get the Denon on loan and test also, send it back if noisy on 5.1 content.

 

[McFly]

Taking myself back to school on 5.1 - looks like I'm going to need to find an AVR mfr. with the little 2.0 channel guy in mind... or open some walls up and get a centre channel installed... sigh.
https://blog.son-video.com/en/2018/...system-you-may-be-losing-more-than-you-think/

 

[Macfox]

This one made in Vietnam. I has nothing against Vietnam, but for Denon, I prefer units made in Japan.

For an expensive receiver, I'd prefer Japan as well. For a free and simple converter like this, I personally don't really care. Every model below the 6700 is already made there and quality control seems fine.

Taking myself back to school on 5.1 - looks like I'm going to need to find an AVR mfr. with the little 2.0 channel guy in mind... or open some walls up and get a centre channel installed... sigh.

If you have the space and don't mind the look, a center channel is the best thing (together with a subwoofer) that you can add for movies and tv. Might not be a bad idea any way.

I'm sure it would be fine with stereo content over HDMI as 2 channels in, 2 channels out. But if the Sony gets 5.1 content it will send 5.1 content to whatever "audio system" is attached. Down-mixing or forcing a stereo track cannot be done by the Sony TV settings, unless the source content is chosen as 2.0.

I guess the only way to confirm is to drag my old AVR up here and see if I can hear a difference between netflix 5.1 and netflix 2.0 , AVR forced to L/R channels only. Maybe try get the Denon on loan and test also, send it back if noisy on 5.1 content.

An alternative solution is to watch movies and series via a mediaplayer like Nvidia Shield TV, that lets you set a system wide output limitation.

 

[MOCKBA]

Taking myself back to school on 5.1 - looks like I'm going to need to find an AVR mfr. with the little 2.0 channel guy in mind... or open some walls up and get a centre channel installed... sigh.

Interesting, friend of mine is exact the guy, everything he listens to through 2 channels stereo. How can you watch movies, I ask, you can't hear clear dialogs without the central channel? I use subtitles, he answers.

 

[McFly]

For anyone reading and interested, upon further thought I realised that Amirs testing was broadcasting 8 full (of which 6 were silent) PCM channels to the amp and NOT a surround encoded DD+ or other multi channel audio tech.. perhaps the denon thought it was receiving 8 PCM channels and trying to downmix 6 silent channels to the L and R’s, thus amplifying noise floor. A. Or something like that anyway so…

Therefore I grabbed the 3700 to use with my stereo speakers. My dealer was cool with a return if I wasn’t happy. No issues to report whatsoever, in fact subjectively it sounds better than it did before with the integrated. I believe this may be due to the AVR actually knowing what to do with 5.1 with only L/R turned on.

I live happily ever after indeed with full eARC+CEC and Spotify connect. Now to find some WAFable centre surrounds for this lounge…

 

[Artsfols]

For anyone reading and interested, upon further thought I realised that Amirs testing was broadcasting 8 full (of which 6 were silent) PCM channels to the amp and NOT a surround encoded DD+ or other multi channel audio tech.. perhaps the denon thought it was receiving 8 PCM channels and trying to downmix 6 silent channels to the L and R’s, thus amplifying noise floor. A. Or something like that anyway so…

Therefore I grabbed the 3700 to use with my stereo speakers. My dealer was cool with a return if I wasn’t happy. No issues to report whatsoever, in fact subjectively it sounds better than it did before with the integrated. I believe this may be due to the AVR actually knowing what to do with 5.1 with only L/R turned on.

I live happily ever after indeed with full eARC+CEC and Spotify connect. Now to find some WAFable centre surrounds for this lounge…

I'm glad that had a happy ending for you. Down mixing 6 silent channels in is the way I also understood the problem. I can't imagine that any source would ever send a stereo signal in that manner.
The one thing I would like with my 3700H receiver is to have it optionally ignore the surround channels when doing a down mix to 3.1. Every once in a while, the surrounds carry a delayed signal which messes up the sound when mixed into the fronts. I'm only guessing at what is happening here. After a month or so of use this has only happened on two occasions.

 

[Shives]

That is correct. When I turn on the Denon receiver I don't hear any hum, no vibration, no sound at all. It just turns on and stays quiet. Is it possible you are experiencing a ground loop?[/QUOTE
Agreed mine is super quiet. Just the loud relay clicks turning on, and switching options. Other wise this thing is dead quiet. If you have any noise like that, maybe test your plug at the wall. Get a plug in tester from home sept of something. It will light saying what the fault is. If nothing, maybe it’s your AVR unit.

 

[Shives]

Question... has anyone hooked up a Vault 2i? To the 3700? Furthermore, has anyone hooked up and external DAC. Was it worth it? Was the vault enough!? Thanks.

 

[amper42]

Question... has anyone hooked up a Vault 2i? To the 3700? Furthermore, has anyone hooked up and external DAC. Was it worth it? Was the vault enough!? Thanks.

I tried the Topping E30 DAC with the Denon 4700. I didn't notice an upgrade in sound quality. I use Audirvana for streaming. I like it better than the Vault 2i. But after Friday, May 14, 2021 Audirvana will no longer be sold and they are pushing a $7 a month license or $70 a year plan. It makes me want to look at Roon as an alternative. I originally went with Audirvana because I liked the features and didn't want to pay a monthly fee. It's bad enough I have to pay Qobuz.

 

[Shives]

I tried the Topping E30 DAC with the Denon 4700. I didn't notice an upgrade in sound quality. I use Audirvana for streaming. I like it better than the Vault 2i. But after Friday, May 14, 2021 Audirvana will no longer be sold and they are pushing a $7 a month license or $70 a year plan. It makes me want to look at Roon as an alternative. I originally went with Audirvana because I liked the features and didn't want to pay a monthly fee. It's bad enough I have to pay Qobuz.

So I was considering roon, but the price is a bit much. I want to setup some sort of music server for my music at my house and mix the online services. Any suggestions? And why did you like the audirvava better? .

 

[amper42]

I didn't like Audirvana better than Roon. I liked Audirvana because it was $100 one time purchase. It allows me to play all my ripped lossless CD's, Qobuz, Tidal and various playlists all from my computer via DLNA/UPnP without compression. I can still use it after Friday as long as I want - but it won't have an upgrade path.

You could get a USB 3.1 flash drive (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D7Q41PM/). Plug it into the Denon and use the HEOS app to play your music. That's a low cost solution that works from a phone app.

 

[Shives]

I didn't like Audirvana better than Roon. I liked Audirvana because it was $100 one time purchase. It allows me to play all my ripped lossless CD's, Qobuz, Tidal and various playlists all from my computer via DLNA/UPnP without compression. I can still use it after Friday as long as I want - but it won't have an upgrade path.

You could get a USB 3.1 flash drive (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D7Q41PM/). Plug it into the Denon and use the HEOS app to play your music. That's a low cost solution that works from a phone app.

No, I’m sorry maybe my cold fingers typing screwed that up. I’m saying why do you like Audirvana better then vault 2i?
I was going to do roon, but seems like an expensive setup plus monthly fees. Yes, thanks.. I know I can use HOES app.. I mean HEOS. The interface is not that great for going through your own music via a thumb drive. Again, I would love to know someone’s use with vault 2i and the Denon. Thanks man for your time.

 

[notabenem]

Anyone, who owns the X3700H: could you please check if in "AUTO" surround mode the AVR adds any reverb or echo to the dialogues in a setup using a phantom CENTER?

Reason: I want to change my AVR (because I can't fit a center speaker in my room). My old Marantz SR5003 apparently first mixes the C channel to the L and R channels and afterwards does all the surround processing for L and R messing up the dialogues quite a bit by audible echo/reverb added to it. If I put it into "SOURCE DIRECT" mode, then the dialogues are clearer (without echo) but the EQ and surround effects are obviously lost.

 

[Artsfols]

Anyone, who owns the X3700H: could you please check if in "AUTO" surround mode the AVR adds any reverb or echo to the dialogues in a setup using a phantom CENTER?

Reason: I want to change my AVR (because I can't fit a center speaker in my room). My old Marantz SR5003 apparently first mixes the C channel to the L and R channels and afterwards does all the surround processing for L and R messing up the dialogues quite a bit by audible echo/reverb added to it. If I put it into "SOURCE DIRECT" mode, then the dialogues are clearer (without echo) but the EQ and surround effects are obviously lost.

I don't know if I can answer directly but can add some insight. First, are you using optical audio to connect to the Marantz, and what is your source?

I believe that mixing center channel is a no-win proposition with only a left and right. If the sound source has isolated clear speech into the centre channel, and many do, then you can either a) lose it entirely, or b) mix into the L+R with less than sterling results.
But with HDMI (versus optical) here is what I think is happening with my Apple TV box as source. The HDMI input almost always presents a stereo track from the original source, by which I mean, youtube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, et cetera. It also simultaneously presents a 5 channel multi-track when that is available.
On my Denon receiver the INFO button presents an overlay of what it's getting on the HDMI input as well as what is going to the speakers. If there's only a stereo source present (often), then I have a choice of going L+R with sub, or L+R+C with sub. In the latter case, the C gets a blend of the L+R channels. I don't like the results of this upmixing, and turn the centre channel off. (And that's not straightforward but can be done. I have it down to a button on my universal remote).
If there's a 5 channel source present, I tend to go L+R+C with the sub which mixes in the surrounds. But (I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong) a stereo mix is still available as well. So if the 5 channel mixdown is a mess (can occasionally happen) I revert to the stereo source and all is well.

In your case, and this is the reason the source is important, if your 5 channel mixdown has reverb you don't want, you should be able to flip back to the stereo track. I don't believe that the 3700H adds reverb, except on some goofy sound mix options that I never use. The reverb is coming from the surround channels at source.

This analysis is based on surmise from exhibited behaviour. Please correct or amplify or affirm, anyone. I'm still very much a student of this game.

 

[bigguyca]

I agree that adding an additional box, especially for video games, gives rise to concerns about concessions. But between nothing at all, the first solution considered even worse and the box, I prefer the box. A recall of all amps with replacement of faulty hdmi cards would have been a huge financial drain on them I think.

As for manufacturing in Vietnam, I won't comment because I'm not sure the 3700h model I own is made in Japan.

Denon/Marantz is owned by Sound United, which is owned by Charlesbank Capital Partners.

Denon/Marantz is owned by Sound United, which is owned by Charlesbank Capital Partners. Charlesbank owns almost 100 companies. The money is available to provide better options for Denon/Marantz customers. The owners of Denon/Marantz just don't want to spend it; the wart with a wall wart being the preferred option.

Charlesbank | building middle-market industry leaders

Denon/Marantz/Sound United is in the Consumer Group along with companies such as Del Taco.

 

[Artsfols]

Denon/Marantz is owned by Sound United, which is owned by Charlesbank Capital Partners.

Denon/Marantz is owned by Sound United, which is owned by Charlesbank Capital Partners. Charlesbank owns almost 100 companies. The money is available to provide better options for Denon/Marantz customers. The owners of Denon/Marantz just don't want to spend it; the wart with a wall wart being the preferred option.

Charlesbank | building middle-market industry leaders

Denon/Marantz/Sound United is in the Consumer Group along with companies such as Del Taco.

I think they're counting on a low adoption rate of the add on box. Can you provide some guidance? I'm a casual gamer. If I purchased an Xbox Series X, the latest and greatest in that line, can I set my HDMI 2.1 output to say, 4K and 60 Hz, thereby avoiding the 8K-4K/120Hz bug? If that's the case, I won't bother with the add on box.

 

[patoulol]

what do you prefer ?

x3700 + EMOTIVA BASX A-700 + 3 x hypex ncore nc250mp for L R C

or

x4700 + 2 x Purifi 400 for LR

In the first choice all the internal amps would be off

edit

 

[peng]

I assume you meant X3700H and X4700H. In that case I would do option 2, or option 2 but substitute the 4700 with the 3700. Either way, I can add up to 9 more external amp channels down the road, and can do it in two steps.

 

[notabenem]

I don't know if I can answer directly but can add some insight. First, are you using optical audio to connect to the Marantz, and what is your source?

Source is HDMI, audio that is passed-through from my KODI BOX. I can see the RED icons lighting up on the receiver (meaing it's DTS, DD, or something similar, not pure LPCM).

The reverb is clearly coming from the surround processing and downmixing of the center to the front channels. If I keep the 4.0 (have no sub) setup, but disable the DSP processing (source direct) it's simply gone. Unfortunately, most of my sources have either a surround (5.1) or a stereo track. not both.