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Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

amper42

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When Dirac is used it lowers the volume so frequency boosts are less likely when creating a flat response. That same logic can be applied when creating Audyssey house curves.
 

Roland

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The Naim is known for adding punch to the music presentation. It's a trademark sound for Naim. Music can sound more exciting. Naim is a quality amp that does the job. It can hold it's own with amps rated as having 2-3x more watts.
I agree that amplifiers have different sound signatures, although a fundamental premise of empiricists here on ASR is that amps don’t have a sound as such and that two amps that measure the same should sound the same. But they don’t.
 

amper42

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Naim is a special case. From my experience most amps do sound the same. :D

Naim uses some special sauce to create space between the beats which translates into a punchier sound. You put a Naim next to a Hegel integrated amp and you can hear the difference. Naim charges quite a lot for their tech so you better like the extra spicy beef on your sandwich. lol
 

peng

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I agree that amplifiers have different sound signatures, although a fundamental premise of empiricists here on ASR is that amps don’t have a sound as such and that two amps that measure the same should sound the same. But they don’t.

My understanding is that well designed amps should not have a sound signature other than one that is neutral/transparent if used within their limits, except those not designed for accuracy. I would avoid those amps because if I want to listen to some sort of sound signature I would just use EQ so I have control over the changes. Good thing you like Naim's "sound signature", but it is possible that others may not.
 

BDWoody

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I agree that amplifiers have different sound signatures, although a fundamental premise of empiricists here on ASR is that amps don’t have a sound as such and that two amps that measure the same should sound the same. But they don’t.

Uh huh.
 

peng

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But I bet the Naim doesn’t measure well. What is it about amplifiers that we don’t seem to be able to measure?

I wonder why you would bet this way so I did a search and found the measurements of one $6,995 Naim integrated amp.
Naim Audio Uniti Nova integrated amplifier-media player Measurements | Stereophile.com

I guess you bet right because while the important measurements may be good enough to to hide below the threshold of audibility, you can tell, (only if you read between the lines) that JA wasn't too impressed about a few things, including output impedance, frequency response (still only drop 2 dB at 20,000 Hz) likely a result of the not too low output impedance, noise, square wave, among others. In the conclusion he said:

"Other than its idiosyncratic behavior with high-sample-rate data, the Naim Uniti Nova's measured performance reveals it to be well sorted, as they say in the UK.—John Atkinson"

As a lot of integrated amps, even this relatively high price one, they don't out fit them with flag ship or near flag ship DAC IC. The PCM1791 used in this amp-media player is the same one used in many older model mid range AVRs. It would have been nice for a few dollars more, if they up it to the much better spec'ed PCM1792, or at least the PCM1796 used in the older Marantz AVP and Denon flag ship AVRs.
 

Roland

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Yup, idiosyncratic is definitely Naim, but they sound great for some reason (which should be identifiable in terms of amp design and must be capable of measurement). It doesn’t seem to be wattage, sinad or frequency response, and I have no understanding of current as a measure of amplifier output, but the quality that Naim amps have is the ability to drive speaker response to transients (bass in particular) and reproduce clear upper frequencies without them being harsh or tiring. It must be measurable, because it’s so identifiable when you listen to their amps.
 

peng

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Yup, idiosyncratic is definitely Naim, but they sound great for some reason (which should be identifiable in terms of amp design and must be capable of measurement). It doesn’t seem to be wattage, sinad or frequency response, and I have no understanding of current as a measure of amplifier output, but the quality that Naim amps have is the ability to drive speaker response to transients (bass in particular) and reproduce clear upper frequencies without them being harsh or tiring. It must be measurable, because it’s so identifiable when you listen to their amps.

Based on specs and measurements it can't be voltage or current related if it beats your much more powerful RX-A3080 when driving two channels.

Do you think it is the higher 2nd, and even 3rd harmonics to lesser extent that did the trick for you? Its not really that high, but perhaps high enough relative to the 3080's to have an audible effects on you.
 

Benedium

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Maybe the best people to explain it would be the Naim engineers, but then maybe that would be like top chefs giving up their secret recipe?
 

peng

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Maybe the best people to explain it would be the Naim engineers, but then maybe that would be like top chefs giving up their secret recipe?

They actually also claimed, like other "high end" audio product makers, designed for "..as close as possible to its original live source...". I interpret that as for transparency or neutrality, not color or a targeted sound signature, though measurements show that 80 W amp-media player did show higher distortions and less flat FR than at least some other integrated amps, and D+M aves.

May be Roland should try a blind side by side with the 3080 and apples to apples tests to see if bias also played a part? I mean, just in case..
 

Lbstyling

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Do the Denon AVR 3x00 range (and in fact any of the recent Denon AVRs have headphone amplification?

If they have the feature-
-Is there any idea on the relative quality of the output?
-Is there any idea on the relative power of the output? 1w at 32ohm would be amazing (probably dreaming here)
 
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Grandzoltar

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There may be a spec if you look up the manual. Below average I'm sure. I think they just use a resistor on the headphone input. 200-300 will get you a nice desktop headphone system I would build a stand alone setup
 

bigguyca

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Do the Denon AVR 3x00 range (and in fact any of the (1) recent Denon AVRs have headphone amplification?

If they have the feature-
- (2) Is there any idea on the relative quality of the output?
- (3) Is there any idea on the relative power of the output? (4)1w at 32ohm would be amazing (probably dreaming here)

(1) Headphone jack output, X3700H adds support for output to headphones over Bluetooth.

(2) Yes

(3) Yes

(4) The headphone output is taken from the L/R amplified speaker outputs through 470 ohm resistors in each case. Driving a nominal 32 ohm or less load, if that load has a varying impedance, would lead to uneven frequency response.

The maximum voltage output from an amplifier channel is somewhat over 30V RMS. The 470 ohm output resistance forms a voltage divider with a 32 ohm impedance. You can determine the maximum output voltage into the headphones and thus power from these values. Outputs into other impedances can also be calculated.
 

bcorhan

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Hello everybody
A little question : I ordered the 3700h to substitute my Yamaha 1060. In the same time I'm using a primare i25 for stereo.what is the best way :
1.using a switch between AV receiver and stereo
2.connect my stereo amplifier with front pre out of the Denon
Thanks for all
 

Lbstyling

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(1) Headphone jack output, X3700H adds support for output to headphones over Bluetooth.

(2) Yes

(3) Yes

(4) The headphone output is taken from the L/R amplified speaker outputs through 470 ohm resistors in each case. Driving a nominal 32 ohm or less load, if that load has a varying impedance, would lead to uneven frequency response.

The maximum voltage output from an amplifier channel is somewhat over 30V RMS. The 470 ohm output resistance forms a voltage divider with a 32 ohm impedance. You can determine the maximum output voltage into the headphones and thus power from these values. Outputs into other impedances can also be calculated.

Alright E=IxR.

But if I have read this correctly, E=30 (ish), I= (not sure if your saying 470/32?=14.6Ohms

E/R= 30/14.6= 2A? and at the 3700x's around 88db SINAD

E x I = 60W. I have an assumption wrong here.

How would I calculate 'The 470 ohm output resistance forms a voltage divider with a 32 ohm impedance' into a useful number?
 

amper42

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Hello everybody
A little question : I ordered the 3700h to substitute my Yamaha 1060. In the same time I'm using a primare i25 for stereo.what is the best way :
1.using a switch between AV receiver and stereo
2.connect my stereo amplifier with front pre out of the Denon
Thanks for all

I would suggest using the Denon 3700 for your Stereo and Home theatre if they are both in the same room. Move the primare i25 integrated amp to your office or bedroom. There will not be any value in using it with the Denon 3700 that I can see.
 

dan_e10

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Can the X3700H play mch DSD without a conversion to PCM? Either over HDMI or via USB would work for me as I have an Oppo 105 that I've ripped my SACD's to DSF's. If it can do this, do you need to select a mode like "Pure Direct" or "Pure DSD"? Is a stereo mixdown of all channels +LFE still available on the stereo Zone preouts at the same time? I would be feeding a minidsp with 2 inputs to handle a multisub array ala Geddes. That is mains/center/surrounds run full range (and no processing applied if possible) while the subs have EQ and LPF's applied individually.

I'd have a similar question related to the analog stereo inputs. Can ADC be avoided but still have the same stereo preouts available for use to feed miniDSP?

Dan
 

amper42

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Can the X3700H play mch DSD without a conversion to PCM? Either over HDMI or via USB would work for me as I have an Oppo 105 that I've ripped my SACD's to DSF's. If it can do this, do you need to select a mode like "Pure Direct" or "Pure DSD"? Is a stereo mixdown of all channels +LFE still available on the stereo Zone preouts at the same time? I would be feeding a minidsp with 2 inputs to handle a multisub array ala Geddes. That is mains/center/surrounds run full range (and no processing applied if possible) while the subs have EQ and LPF's applied individually.

I'd have a similar question related to the analog stereo inputs. Can ADC be avoided but still have the same stereo preouts available for use to feed miniDSP?

Dan

See pages 285 and 289 of the Denon 3700 manual. DSD 2 channel and 5 channel are supported.

p289.png
 

Sprint

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Hello everybody
A little question : I ordered the 3700h to substitute my Yamaha 1060. In the same time I'm using a primare i25 for stereo.what is the best way :
1.using a switch between AV receiver and stereo
2.connect my stereo amplifier with front pre out of the Denon
Thanks for all

@bcorhan
Can you please share with us how does the 3700 sound compared to 1060. I am running my Genelec monitors with a 7 year old Yamaha AVR RX-V775. Soon I am planning to replace it with a Denon 3700 or something that has been measured well here in ASR by amirm.

So far, I am a big fan of Yamaha sound. On the other hand, experts in ASR say that AVRs should sound similar when run in Pure direct mode and the Room correction (EQ) is the one that brings difference in sound signature. I am not sure if it is even right to compare because if the AVR is measured well and is neutral, then this is exactly what we need. I am only more eager to compare the surround AI capabilities of Denon Vs Yamaha.

For a pure 2ch stereo, I do not want to use any AVR as most of them does not have digital output (my Genelecs can take digital inputs). For 2 ch stereo, I do not want a two times DA conversions and hence I have taken the route that is Raspberry Pi 3 -> Topping D10s via Usb -> Genelec via SPIDF - AES. I am super happy with the results especially for the money that one needs to spend on Pi3 and Topping.

Thanks!
 
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