Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Bello]

@amirm -Thank you for all you've done!

After reading all your reviews concerning the 2 channel phenomenon on the 4700H , and later a Denon work around 7.1 config w/ no fix / and or Denon update. During this time, I was researching the 4700H / 6700H.... After the long awaited Denon response (felt like forever) from your performance test results or lack of. Days before the 4th of July, I pulled the trigger on the 6700H. The Contributing factor for my purchase, beside spec was "made in Japan" vs Vietnam as the 4700H. In past years, I've worked on high end MF systems, Japanese technology / continue to date. Japanese almost put IBM to shame at one point in the multi-billion dollar Mainframe industry. I've closely worked with the Japanese, visiting the U.S for periods of time. They had always been floor-less, hardware implementation / design / and software in this multi-billion $ industry. All that said, I was greatly disappointed w/ denon (and yes, a different company but under the same Japanese corporate umbrella, another story) after your performance test of the 6700H. Added insult to injury, Denon fessed up with a swapped cap, (due-to-COVID supply shortage? ) out of spec, pre-amp- electrolytic capacitors? Yea it works? as tested, but totally out of spec at a $ premium cost? That was the kicker, done! This system will be heading back. For those of you who have followed @amirm, as he said the cap is located in the Pre-Amp side which means. There is no way around the bad signal, ether w/ External or internal amplification, same difference. I've now back tracked to the 4700H. I just received 4700H yesterday, and I'm going through the function / testing. Of cause, no test gear besides my eyes / ears. Few software switching glitches still apparent ( not a deal breaker) as in the 6700H, I'm certain across all X models too. Hopefully, software updates will evidently fix them? TBD

I'm also waiting for the August 5th recall list. BUT- Only for those who dial-in-to Denon? Ha! I'll need that in writing / not a verbal ya / nay, sorry!

Also- Amirm earlier you mentioned internal fans (not spinning) w/ running hot in the 4700H during extensive testing. You said, top RT side hot / no fan spin. Well, on the 4th of July, while NYC was exploding fireworks outside my home, I was boom testing my 6700H inside, w/ my SVS Ultra towers setup 7.1 / 13.1 quick setup. And yes, as you mentioned heat for the 4700 ~ 6700 was a bit hotter w/ the added 2 amps 11 in total. I was driving the 6700 @ 70-80-90% volume for a few hours. The units top middle front right was very hot. I'd say around 120-150 degrees (unit was staged on top of my console, cool, open air ) w/ 6700H temps climbing. Back end, GPU area cool but not in use. I noticed, internal fans were Not spinning ? The following day, I called Denon support. Escalated / response. And I quote, "the fans will only turn on when Amps reach a critical state of 160- 210 degrees." I believe the fans remain off due to added noise / distortion levels? + dust contamination, fans otherwise never turn on. Usual system killers, Heat + Dust................

So, lets say I have an 8K TV or 4K TV, and you're looking to upscale the video signal + / eARC return audio signal running a few hour movie. Now you have a GPU burning up the back end of the unit and the amps on fire in the front of the unit. Ummm- Marshmallow Smores anyone? I do, but not right now. Maybe after the movie or during for that matter. Huddle around the 6700 w/ marshmallows.

That said, for many years I've worked / designed high end SAN systems as a design SAN architect / SE engineer. With many years of hands on H/W in large complex data center environments. Based on my h/w experience, I believe the amplifiers will most likely survive, as do some low / mid end system CPU's running at 200-250 degree temps, mostly on air cooled heat sinks. I also believe the surrounding components, operating, close to the same oven temps, in a confined area will eventually fail, short out.

In conclusion: If you're replacing your system every few years, I'd say your safe. Unless your have your Denon AVR sandwiched between other components w/ little air flow. Then, I'd say your looking for trouble in more ways than one.

In my planning, I Pre-determined the over-all temperature issue, design layout, component confinement in the X systems. Especially 6700H, with the GPU just inches away (back end of the unit) from the ever so hot 11 AMP's. These 11 AMP's sitting on Two medium gauge heat sinks bolted together in series, front/back component area closely confined, inadequate ventilation, air movement. The reason for the added heat to front right side. I believe the Main LCR channels begin on the front right. Left side has less heat, driven FHS, RHS ect. The 8500H, overall better heat distribution, performance, component implementation, proportionate to over-all component layout (more space), efficient heat dispensation, inner area top to bottom for extracting heat from components, 2 larger gauged heat sinks, separated, across from each other, ect... From what I could see, 4700H has (2) smaller gauge, separate heat sinks both closely sandwiched together, front/back split 9 AMP's . I didn't care for the Op-panel ribbon cable crossed over the top of the heat sink, (4 cooling fins blocked) unlike the better designed 6700H, they ran the ribbon cable around somewhere away from the heat sinks. Wonder why? Talk about Marshmallow Smores? If so, the heat sink would most differently melt the ribbon cable sitting on top of the heat sink.

The feature that sold me on the X systems was the MODE "All AMP's OFF" using pre-amp MODE, perfect! External Amp feature. As we know, AMP MODE "ALL AMPS Off or NONE, or ALL AMPS ON"..... Fact, if (3) Pre Amp'd channels are used externally, the unused amps will still have current flow ~ continued power draw, added heat which is Not good. As far as shutting down all the amplifiers, I configured my Denon as a processor. It's running cool as a cucumber while also running video, driving it w/ 2600 W ~ 7 CHNL Emotiva AMP. And yes, an added cost factor. Far better than the 8500H route. In more ways then one. And boy does Denon / Emotiva / SVS combo kick axx. I also added the Zone 2 pre-outs to my old Yamaha AVR, home ceiling speakers, pre-wired throughout my home. All in all, XPA GEN3 -7 has proven to be extremely effective. I was sold at hello, once I spec'd it out, performance vs cost, incredible! As I mentioned, my SVS Ultra Towers / and surround need power ready, no shell games here concerning power processing to 7 channels +. As in the words of Capt. James T. Kirk. "Scotty, I need more power!!!" It's true!!! The 6700H in two channel drove the low end Towers fairly well (somewhat Impressive) but lost it in multichannel. I connected my XPA GEN3- 7, earth shattering sound with the help of SVS Ultra Towers and SVS surround setup. OMG!!! I was blown away in two channel, no sub included during my first sound test. Ran just as well, if not better in multi-channel test. On the other hand, my New 4700H @ 120W running 2 channel alone, fizzled. My Towers were yawning at max volume, it barely drove the 2 channel low end Altra Tower dual 8' drivers. Imagine multi channel setup? I didn't even try. NG period. The X6700H got there w/ little effort in 2 channel ONLY. But not multi-channel. Hence, the added Emotiva power for 7 channel output, 100% power ready, ALL THE TIME! I hooked up my X6700H w/ Emotiva, it performed flawlessly. Simply incredible sound and performance! As should the X4700H, when I get around to it later this week.

Amirm- The one question I have regarding your MAX " SINAD sensitivity 1.4v test" before clipping..... I checked Emotiva spec, it's rated at 1.5V sensitivity. Not sure if that is a major concern? Can you please comment as to my findings. If I get anywhere close to max 1.4V pre-amp output running my Emotiva, I believe the db level will be beyond the sound I could humanly handle. Emotiva is putting out 300W (2) channel stereo and a constant 275W multi-channel, all (7) channels driven @ 8 ohms. Not sure I'll ever get passed 1.4V or even close to the power output.

---

Moving on- "unlike 7.1, 5.1 or what ever one cares to setup. At the end, you have power distributing from a Denon processor, into multi channel system, redirected power, MS delay? distribution of power or most likely, lack of power. My thoughts on the matter of performance vs real value on your Denon and or expensive speaker setup is somewhat diminished, power bottle neck. Concerning power processing, multi-channel power distribution / lack of clean, ready power at the end.

After all said and done, I am running my system cool / clean as a cucumber. And last but not least, w/ the installation of an AC Infinity AIRPLATE S3 w/ supplied C.U. Yes, a bit of work, worth every drip of sweat and $ I installed it at the end. I added custom cut filters for incoming air, eliminating most dust.

Note- I have two fans filtered to avoid dust (positive air flow pressure into my console, air output through small door seams, no need for massive air flow, just cool moving air will suffice. Unless your stacking multiple hot units, I'm not) I Used (AC filters) 2 layers depending on the filter thickness / type. And of cause, you'll need to vacuum the filters from time to time.

The Emotiva generates much less heat, and certainly not in one spot. It has 7 large heat sinks + large heat sink for the power supply. Overall AMP design, impeccable! Even when driving all 7 AMP's. The thermal sensor from the AC infinity hanging over the top center, 1/4 inch off the unit. Cool to the touch. After several hours of music, movie play. The Emotiva has Not gone past 88 degrees . On the other end of my console, 6700H, same setup 2 filtered fans, incoming rear air attached to the same AC infinity C.U.. Heat tested 6700H, also cool as a cucumber, ALL AMPS OFF. And of cause, No warm or hot spots. I seriously drove the Emotiva / SVS setup to the point of my home having structural damage (just testing). The Ultra Towers need power ( it has lower, dual 8" drivers in each tower) beyond even the 6700 can throw at it in 2 channel. I was truly amazed of the over all Denon / Emotiva performance. Ultra's set to SMALL, all SVS speakers spec'd / crossovers Freq setup, 7.1 + LFE w/ PB-2000 Pro, incredible full band width sound, w/ clean unadulterated power distribution! As far as Denon's short comings, concerning down graded, electrolytic capacitor issue. The 6700H will most likely go back next week, just after a few more days of testing on the new 4700H.

As I said above, I'm still testing all the functions / main outputs, internal amps of the 4700H. After testing internal amps, I will hook-it-up to the beast "EMOTIVA" For my the all around final test. I'm hoping to pick a hot day where most people will head to the beach. Not at home...yikes, lol

I hope this helps someone out there still on the fence or concerned w/ the 4700H / 6700H. I'm sure they're many of you just reading along as I have all these months in horror.

Good luck and stay safe!

 

[RichB]

Hope this question applies to more that just Rich and myself. AHB2's are wonderful amplifiers.

While likely poorly stated the question really was overall what do you think of using one of these Denon AVR's to drive AHB2's? I've been using Marantz AVP's with AHB2's, but don't like Marantz's continued use of the non-standard reconstruction filters (and not giving a choice of filter) and HDAM's. The new AV7706 appears to have the same number of channels as the previous unit plus the filter and HDAM drawbacks, even if the HDAM's somehow are improved. Seems a DOA product.

Use of the RCA's would be a drawback, but voltage is voltage and the Denon's seem to put out 2V at least a cleanly, and like better, than the Marantz AV units. 2V minimum (much more would be preferred of course) is certainly a requirement for the AHB2's. An adapter from RCA to balanced cables close to the small signal source would provide some of the benefits of a pure balanced connection. Even Bill Whitlock seems to grudgingly agree with that.

Well, I tried to test this scenario but failed completely.

Hooking up the output of 3700 to Purifi using RCA to XLR adapter generated worse results than the internal amps! Some of this I traced to increased ground loop. But even when I filtered this out, the Purifi still performed worse.

I then tested the Purifi using my Audio Precision unbalanced (RCA) outputs. To my surprise, its performance was worse than it was with balanced input. It was still much better than what I could do with 3700H though.

After an hour of messing with it, I gave up. It is possible there is ultrasonic noise from the 3700H DAC that is disturbing the Purifi amplifier (wild guess).

In abstract, you need to have the amp be 10 dB better to have it almost be transparent (0.5 dB loss in SINAD). In your scenario we don't have that so the SINAD will drop to around 96 to 97 dB (my guess).

The test by @amirm with Purifi was a bit surprising. I did buy the Benchmark RCA to XLR cables that are start-quad with some special grounding to use with the Oppo UDP-205 in the event that my processor needs to ship out for an upgrade or repair. The system must keep running.

Here is the description from the Benchmark site:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-rca-to-xlrm-adapter-cable

This adapter cable extends balanced wiring to the RCA connector using star-quad wire to maximize the effectiveness of the balanced input: One half of the star-quad ties Pin 3 of the XLR to the shield of the RCA connector. The other half of the star-quad ties pin 2 of the XLR to the center pin on the RCA. The braided shield ties pin 1 of the XLR to the shield of the RCA.

Using this special wiring, a ground-loop between the two audio devices will produce a current in the braided shield, but not in the audio signal lines. This keeps ground-loop currents out of the critical signal lines and greatly reduces the potential for interference. The separate connection from the RCA ground to pin 2 of the XLR provides a dedicated path for the audio ground reference. This wiring leverages the common-mode rejection of the balanced XLR input to reduce conducted interference.

To reduce magnetic interference, the audio signal is carried on two twisted pairs arranged in a star-quad configuration. This star-quad configuration provides immunity to hum-inducing magnetic fields produced by nearby electronic devices.

This cable provides the best method for directly interfacing an unbalanced output to a balanced input. Do not confuse this cable with similar-looking RCA to XLR cables and adapters!

2 Volts should be allow full output in the AHB2 high-gain mode. It is not something I can try because the 3700 is in Maine with me and my home is in Mass. It did not occur to me to bring an AHB2 here. If I can get up here in the fall, I'll bring one.

- Rich

 

[amirm]

Amirm- The one question I have regarding your MAX " SINAD sensitivity 1.4v test" before clipping..... I checked Emotiva spec, it's rated at 1.5V sensitivity. Not sure if that is a major concern? Can you please comment as to my findings. If I get anywhere close to max 1.4V pre-amp output running my Emotiva, I believe the db level will be beyond the sound I could humanly handle. Emotiva is putting out 300W (2) channel stereo and a constant 275W multi-channel, all (7) channels driven @ 8 ohms. Not sure I'll ever get passed 1.4V or even close to the power output.

If that is the spec from Emotiva, then you are good. But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused. So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance.

 

[Bello]

If that is the spec from Emotiva, then you are good. But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused. So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance.

If so, I do not feel any heat dissipation at all. This would only mean, no current flow through the AMPS. The 6700H amps remain cool to the touch across the top front (above heat sinks) of the AVR. MY understanding of the Pre-Amp MODE. All AMP's are turned off or inactive / Same difference, unless added into the path of a load ~ high current flow = Heat. When you say hot do you mean a bit warm on top? Certainly, nowhere close to warm or hot above the heat sink, even after extensive use, Tkx

 

[Learningmusic]

Well, I tried to test this scenario but failed completely.

Hooking up the output of 3700 to Purifi using RCA to XLR adapter generated worse results than the internal amps! Some of this I traced to increased ground loop. But even when I filtered this out, the Purifi still performed worse.

I then tested the Purifi using my Audio Precision unbalanced (RCA) outputs. To my surprise, its performance was worse than it was with balanced input. It was still much better than what I could do with 3700H though.

After an hour of messing with it, I gave up. It is possible there is ultrasonic noise from the 3700H DAC that is disturbing the Purifi amplifier (wild guess).

In abstract, you need to have the amp be 10 dB better to have it almost be transparent (0.5 dB loss in SINAD). In your scenario we don't have that so the SINAD will drop to around 96 to 97 dB (my guess).

Hi Amir, thanks for testing this out. I am a beginner and I am trying to understand.

I was planning to use an XLR NC252MP amplifier with the RCA pre-outs of the x3700h for powering my speakers. Does this mean I am better off forgoing the external amp and using the x3700h’s internal amplifiers instead?

Thank you!

 

[jalaute]

If that is the spec from Emotiva, then you are good. But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused. So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance.

Disappointing news on the heat front (although I appreciate the attention it's getting). Does your comment refer to L/R off or Pre-out mode (all off)? Note Bello's comment in post 161:

"..... Fact, if (3) Pre Amp'd channels are used externally, the unused amps will still have current flow ~ continued power draw, added heat which is Not good. As far as shutting down all the amplifiers, I configured my Denon as a processor. It's running cool as a cucumber while also running video, driving it w/ 2600 W ~ 7 CHNL Emotiva AMP."

If you still have the 3700, can you look at its heat signature in pre-out mode (all amps "off") when driven by 2V (5 channel or as many as you can)- a little afraid to see what's "under that rock". Can I assume the current thermal pic was of 5 ch internal amps at max output w/ 1% THD?

A full "on"/full (amp) "off" thermal comparison would be very illuminating.

 

[ririt]

Well, I tried to test this scenario but failed completely.

Hooking up the output of 3700 to Purifi using RCA to XLR adapter generated worse results than the internal amps! Some of this I traced to increased ground loop. But even when I filtered this out, the Purifi still performed worse.

I then tested the Purifi using my Audio Precision unbalanced (RCA) outputs. To my surprise, its performance was worse than it was with balanced input. It was still much better than what I could do with 3700H though.

After an hour of messing with it, I gave up. It is possible there is ultrasonic noise from the 3700H DAC that is disturbing the Purifi amplifier (wild guess).

In abstract, you need to have the amp be 10 dB better to have it almost be transparent (0.5 dB loss in SINAD). In your scenario we don't have that so the SINAD will drop to around 96 to 97 dB (my guess).

Thnaks Amir to spend time to test this scenario. Does that mean that Hypex or Purifi amps cannot be paired with Denon AvVR or to any AVR bearing RCA preamp output? It is very disappointing since such amps were a cost-effective solution.

 

[ririt]

then tested the Purifi using my Audio Precision unbalanced (RCA) outputs. To my surprise, its performance was worse than it was with balanced input. It was still much better than what I could do with 3700H though.

Amir, which purifi amp did you tested? The Nord one? Does that suggest that the stellar measurements of the purifi amp can only be obtained using balanced inputs?

 

[rvsixer]

But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused. So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance.

Not directly related, but this also answers to my previous question, and I believe @Anterantz 's as well, about if/why the unit does not run cooler in preamp mode.

Pity. IIRC, the older Pioneer Class D AVR's I used in a previous job testing streamer boxes, you could shut off amps individually. Denon needs to get to that in the next gen. Back to looking at seperates again.

 

[Bello]

If that is the spec from Emotiva, then you are good. But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused. So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance.

@amirm- I'm still trying to wrap my mind around your response above.

" But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused"

If that was the case, it would seem that in a partial pre-amp scenario, lets say only (LCR) external amp, where ALL AMPS now stay ON, correct? ALL or NONE scenario vs Pre-AMP MODE (ALL AMPS - OFF) All connections to External AMP. Explain the difference here? Seems like partial Pre-Amp scenario will always keep the remaining unused channels ON / HOT as Denon marketed. But in a Pre-AMP MODE (ALL channels) totally disconnected of internal amplifiers, at least as I understood it. Same difference as to my older Yamaha AVR, two metal jumpers from Pre-amp IN to Pre-amp OUT are removed to use an external amplifier. Those jumpers disconnect the internal amplifiers from the processed signal. So, if I understand what you're saying, all internal Amplifiers continue to also sit at Full Power? but disconnected? Continue to get HOT? More like a little warm, maybe?

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. Your comment here is throwing me off- w/ "So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance."

Pre-Amp MODE?" Never gets HOT

I have little to NO heat as I previously mentioned hence my dilemma in understanding. Thanks for all your help!

 

[peng]

Indeed, good point. The psychoacoustics hypothesis (they sound warm because they're supposed to) has merit (and I love it because for once I'm in my area of expertise, which is refreshing in a sea of engineers). But what about distorsion? Could Marantz mimic the type of distorsion displayed by most tube amps that is perceived as "warm" and "musical"?

I looked into that too, but as I mentioned, if you compare the FFT graphs, the Denon actually has proportional more 2nd harmonics. You can Google second harmonics and tube like, warm sound and see..

Also, if we set the 2020 models aside and focus on the 2016 through 2018 Denon and Marantz, they are more than similar. For example, the AVR-X4400/4500H, SR7012, SR6012/6014 have identical preamp vol control IC, DAC, and power amps. Even the test voltage point/values of the amp sections are exactly the same. The only difference in the analog audio signal path is the HDAMs that are missing in the Denon models. Since the HDAMs are unity gain buffers between the pre-outs and power amp inputs, their main function is to buffer, without altering the sound intentionally.

For the digital signal path, then of course Amir's measurements discovered those Marantz models (again, apparently only since around 2016, may be late 2015) do have a drop starting at about 10 kHz, because of the output filter Marantz opted to use, whereas Denon went with the default sharp roll-off filter. So I would say if the perceived warmer sound is true, then the filter choice might explain that, and then the reason I could not tell a difference may be because I couldn't hear much pass 10 kHz anyway, who knows.... And then again, if the sharp roll-off filter is the reason, then if compared in direct mode using analog inputs, there shouldn't be a difference, or just very little difference. Good thing we are not talking about all amps sound the same or difference, but about whether the HDAM buffer is responsible for the claimed audible difference. If it is, keep in mind Marantz slim line series don't have HDAMs, then we are full circle back to the DAC filters, that cannot explain differences for analog inputs/direct mode.

 

[peng]

Well, I tried to test this scenario but failed completely.

Hooking up the output of 3700 to Purifi using RCA to XLR adapter generated worse results than the internal amps! Some of this I traced to increased ground loop. But even when I filtered this out, the Purifi still performed worse.

I then tested the Purifi using my Audio Precision unbalanced (RCA) outputs. To my surprise, its performance was worse than it was with balanced input. It was still much better than what I could do with 3700H though.

After an hour of messing with it, I gave up. It is possible there is ultrasonic noise from the 3700H DAC that is disturbing the Purifi amplifier (wild guess).

In abstract, you need to have the amp be 10 dB better to have it almost be transparent (0.5 dB loss in SINAD). In your scenario we don't have that so the SINAD will drop to around 96 to 97 dB (my guess).

It really would have been a great test and one that no other test bench has done before as we can potentially learn a lot from such a test.

I think it should be straightforward to do that test using a class AB amp you measured before, such as the Outaw M2200 monoblock. There won't be any ground loop related issue because so many people have used it with AVR. The only drawback is that the Outlaw likely does not have much better SINAD then the Denon's internal amps. Or the NAD 320/326 may be a better candidate because of their higher SINAD even when used as an integrated amp. May be a member can send one in? I would if I was in the US.

Actually the NAD is better because then not only we can compare it's power amp with Denon's, we can also compare its preamp with the Denon's preout as well. Not sure about the 320, the 326 has the "Main in" that allow the use of external preamps.

 

[RichB]

Correct. Matt mentions Trinnov briefly, where a 3-headed mic is used to differentiate the reflections and is therefore a bit smarter. Still, we need to see further development in this area.

From this non-expert's point of view, I imagine the best system would be:

• Correction for the room up to the transition frequency. These systems are already very good at this.
• Correction for the speaker. User inputs anechoic speaker data file, just like a mic calibration file. We have been doing this in photography for a number of years, with lens correction profiles.
• The system should detect the transition cutoff automatically based on measurements and apply its room EQ up to that point, and the speaker calibration down to that point, in a sort of "crossover" between the two.

What do you guys think?

1) Some already allowing limiting correction: Audyssey (via app), Dirac, Anthem ARC.

2) Speaker correction can be done if the speaker has consistent on and off axis. This is a common problem that cannot be fixed with REQ. If corrected on axis, it makes off-axis worse and the listening window response is worsened.

3) Software can detect larges changes in the response in the listening positions and limiting correction in those areas or by entering the room dimensions to create an upper limit. This may conflict with the market message and predictive graphs showing superbly flat response.

Many are sold on these programs because the predictive results look so good. This sells products.
Without listening window and after measurements, it's a crap-shoot, especially when used full range.

- Rich

 

[Atlantis089]

Hello Well, I see this 3700 is a great amp. Like many, the question now is who to take between the 3700 and the 4700. The audio quality of the two seems very close. The finishes are a little more upscale with the 4700 (screen, front) and I understand that in any case, both heat up a lot. My question is as follows: to supply a 5.1.4 system with peace of mind, won't the 3700 be a little tight on the power level? Isn't it worth going on the 4700 which has a larger margin?

 

[RichB]

@amirm- I'm still trying to wrap my mind around your response above.

" But do note that the internal amplifiers will be acting as if they are running at full power even though they are unused"

If that was the case, it would seem that in a partial pre-amp scenario, lets say only (LCR) external amp, where ALL AMPS now stay ON, correct? ALL or NONE scenario vs Pre-AMP MODE (ALL AMPS - OFF) All connections to External AMP. Explain the difference here? Seems like partial Pre-Amp scenario will always keep the remaining unused channels ON / HOT as Denon marketed. But in a Pre-AMP MODE (ALL channels) totally disconnected of internal amplifiers, at least as I understood it. Same difference as to my older Yamaha AVR, two metal jumpers from Pre-amp IN to Pre-amp OUT are removed to use an external amplifier. Those jumpers disconnect the internal amplifiers from the processed signal. So, if I understand what you're saying, all internal Amplifiers continue to also sit at Full Power? but disconnected? Continue to get HOT? More like a little warm, maybe?

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. Your comment here is throwing me off- w/ "So be prepared for them to get hot even though they are not in use and not yet impacting the DAC performance."

Pre-Amp MODE?" Never gets HOT

I have little to NO heat as I previously mentioned hence my dilemma in understanding. Thanks for all your help!

At this installation, there is no AC here and it has been hot (upper 80's indoors).
Preamp mode gets hot in my cabinet that has limited airflow due to the fixed shelf height and glass doors.
The unit is hottest on the center-left top. I have moved the fan blowing out (for now) to limit dust and it has reduced temperature.
I suspect the amps are disconnected but remain powered up and there are other significant heat sources.



- Rich

 

[Laserjock]

What if you added a unbalanced>balanced converter ?
Rolls MB15b Promatch 2-Way Stereo Converter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IL4B4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_OeckFbJGZ7HWB

 

[reg19]

Just an update: I used Audyssey to remove a lot of the harshness I felt of this receiver (relative to the Marantz SR6014). Now it is very usable. It is a shade more revealing at higher frequencies but I feel that I can make out the low noise floor (not sure if this is bias or not) and can listen to music at a bit lower levels than before.

Now, I need to donate to Amir either ways (for all the work he does).

I do like a few more changes that the new lineup brings:
1. 2 presets for storing settings (like Audyssey settings, pre-amp only mode)
2. Pre-amp only mode. I am on the lookout for a 3-channel amp with matching gains to my A21 so I can switch off all 3700h amplification and use as a pre-amp only.

 

[waynel]

Any chance to push the LR preouts to 4V with the amp disconnected? Audioholics did this with the 3600H and the results were pretty good. Wondering if the 3700H is good at 4V as well.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3600h

 

[theory]

Hello Well, I see this 3700 is a great amp. Like many, the question now is who to take between the 3700 and the 4700. The audio quality of the two seems very close. The finishes are a little more upscale with the 4700 (screen, front) and I understand that in any case, both heat up a lot. My question is as follows: to supply a 5.1.4 system with peace of mind, won't the 3700 be a little tight on the power level? Isn't it worth going on the 4700 which has a larger margin?

Probably depends on if you really need that little bit of extra power and features.

 

[peng]

Any chance to push the LR preouts to 4V with the amp disconnected? Audioholics did this with the 3600H and the results were pretty good. Wondering if the 3700H is good at 4V as well.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3600h

View attachment 76434

If I understood correctly Audioholics did not measure the 3600 and the graph was from Denon, not Audioholics.