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Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

WaynesterUK

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well if the receiver tests beyond its price tag and also get a 5 star review, what is then the issue ..english is not my first language though^^

..as thing will have it I own the 4500h. it performs well soundwise.. but it gets hot so make sure you are NOT boxing it in. Had to reduce the Ohm on it to four with my speakers as well..due to crazy amounts of heat. also the bluetooth is unstable. I have not looked in to the problem in a real way tho.. maybe its doable to improve the situation. have not read any threads on this reciever after I made the purchase..so there might be issues I don`t know about. have the impression general mechanical durability/quality and psu perhaps....have gone down a bit over the past 10 years or so.. in this class of receiver. may very well be wrong, just a gut feeling

Hmmmm why do these Denons run so hot??

I’ve had ZERO issues with my 2200W, I’ll be worried when I do buy a 4500 model, or maybe I should just forget it and get the 3700? That’s less power though? Runs cooler yes?
 

circumstances

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Hmmmm why do these Denons run so hot??

I’ve had ZERO issues with my 2200W, I’ll be worried when I do buy a 4500 model, or maybe I should just forget it and get the 3700? That’s less power though? Runs cooler yes?

My 3700 is on quite a bit and does not run hot at all.

However, I am using it in preamp only mode, with my external Anthem MCA50 amplifier.
 

circumstances

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well if the receiver tests beyond its price tag and also get a 5 star review, what is then the issue ..english is not my first language though^^

..as thing will have it I own the 4500h. it performs well soundwise.. but it gets hot so make sure you are NOT boxing it in. Had to reduce the Ohm on it to four with my speakers as well..due to crazy amounts of heat, which probably(?) leads to less power output then advertised. also bluetooth is unstable, have not looked in to the problem in a real way tho.. maybe its doable to improve the situation. have not read any threads on this reciever after I made the purchase..so there might be issues I don`t know about. have the impression general mechanical durability/quality and psu perhaps....have gone down a bit over the past 10 years or so.. in this class of receiver. may very well be wrong, just a gut feeling

I'm not sure. Perhaps they love everything and give everything a 5 star review, so they are to be viewed skeptically?
 

peng

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Guys - I can’t find a review anywhere of a Denon AVR-X4500, what’s the verdict on this receiver?
I really want this one in Silver and it has plenty of power, bit more than the X3600 and X3700, there are a few good deals online so I’m searching around

I saw no reason why it would not measure as good as the X3600H, say within +/- 2 dB would be my educated guess. It is a little more powerful thatn the X3600H and X3700H, but no more than 1 dB, i.e. negligible practically speaking.
 

peng

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are there significant improvements with the models after 4500h

On the audio side, I would say the "Pre-amp mode" that disconnects all internal amps. The X4500H can only disconnect the front left and right channels. On the video side of course it is the HDMI 2.1/8K.
 

Atlantis089

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So we agree, if we don't care about the additional hdmi port and the 3D auro, we have to take the 3700 and not pay 400 euros more to get the 4700? I am ordering in 10 days so I would really like to have confirmation that the additional 20 watts of the 4700 does not really represent a significant and penalizing increase to connect to the 3700 a 5.1.2 set, even a little demanding (for example silver audio monitors 300).
 

bigguyca

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well if the receiver tests beyond its price tag and also get a 5 star review, what is then the issue ..english is not my first language though^^

..as thing will have it I own the 4500h. it performs well soundwise.. but it gets hot so make sure you are NOT boxing it in. Had to reduce the Ohm on it to four with my speakers as well..due to crazy amounts of heat, which probably(?) leads to less power output then advertised. also bluetooth is unstable, have not looked in to the problem in a real way tho.. maybe its doable to improve the situation. have not read any threads on this reciever after I made the purchase..so there might be issues I don`t know about. have the impression general mechanical durability/quality and psu perhaps....have gone down a bit over the past 10 years or so.. in this class of receiver. may very well be wrong, just a gut feeling


What is the actual temperature at several points on the top of the unit, including the hottest location you can find? "Hot" is not a useful measurement.
 

peng

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well if the receiver tests beyond its price tag and also get a 5 star review, what is then the issue ..english is not my first language though^^

..as thing will have it I own the 4500h. it performs well soundwise.. but it gets hot so make sure you are NOT boxing it in. Had to reduce the Ohm on it to four with my speakers as well..due to crazy amounts of heat, which probably(?) leads to less power output then advertised. also bluetooth is unstable, have not looked in to the problem in a real way tho.. maybe its doable to improve the situation. have not read any threads on this reciever after I made the purchase..so there might be issues I don`t know about. have the impression general mechanical durability/quality and psu perhaps....have gone down a bit over the past 10 years or so.. in this class of receiver. may very well be wrong, just a gut feeling

I highly recommend the use of an external fan whether it is in fact "too hot" or not especially if your speaker's nominal impedance is below 8 ohms. Even if it is not needed, having a fan to run at the slowest speed should cool it down enough to get some benefits in terms of longevity without hearing the fan noise from your seating positions.

A $12 one will do, or get two for $20 and for sure you can use the slowest speed so that you won't hear them from even a few feet away.

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...rds=5v+infinity+usb+fan&qid=1600200945&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-...rds=5v+infinity+usb+fan&qid=1600201019&sr=8-2
 

Keenan

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That dual 120mm setup is excellent, I have such a setup on my 6500 and they work great as well as being very quiet. I tried two different models of Infinity's AirCom units and regardless of the settings I used they were too noisy.
 

1roger

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What is the actual temperature at several points on the top of the unit, including the hottest location you can find? "Hot" is not a useful measurement.

never measured the temp.. but it WAS way over what anyone would consider healthy for electronics..top cover 60-70 celcius perhaps..really hot to the touch. after I set it to the lowest ohm setting as said, it cooled down considerably. regular denon integrated amp levels
 

Yany

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Guys, do you know what impedance are pre-outs rated? Is it known? Thanks.
 

ririt

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Guys, do you know what impedance are pre-outs rated? Is it known? Thanks.
this is from the measurement performed by Amir on the 4700h


index.php


It is fairly high output impedance. So don't load it down below 12 k Ohm.
 

Yany

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Thank you. That's pretty much, truth. Asking before buying poweramp for my fronts and the one which I'd like, has 10kOhm input impedance. Looks like it's not a good choice for pairing with Denon.
 

1roger

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Thank you. That's pretty much, truth. Asking before buying poweramp for my fronts and the one which I'd like, has 10kOhm input impedance. Looks like it's not a good choice for pairing with Denon.

does it have xlr or rca inputs. or both.. the impedance is afaik often quite different on the input types
 

Yany

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does it have xlr or rca inputs. or both.. the impedance is afaik often quite different on the input types
It has RCA only. With such high impedance it makes it quite hard to find an amp which will fit my Focals and also Denon.
 

bigguyca

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Thank you. That's pretty much, truth. Asking before buying poweramp for my fronts and the one which I'd like, has 10kOhm input impedance. Looks like it's not a good choice for pairing with Denon.

A few thoughts and some data:

For the Denon AVR's you'll need to go to the X8500H or X6700H, that generally have around 220 ohm preamp output impedances, to increase the input/output impedance ratio to >10.

Denon AVR's with relatively high preamp output impedances have been used to drive power amplifiers for a long time. That doesn't mean a lower output impedance wouldn't be better, but as you'll see below it would likely make little, and more likely, no difference. .

The Denon preamp output impedance should be constant with frequency since it is set by resistors as shown in Amir's data. If the input impedance of the power amplifier is also constant then the only effect is some loss in effective voltage input to the power amplifier due to the voltage drop across the preamp output resistors. For example with easy numbers:

1k ohm output impedance, 9k ohm input impedance at 1kHz. 1V output from the preamp means .1V across the output resistors and .9V to the input on the power amplifier. This is an output drop of about .9dB. If the impedances don't change with frequency, then this is just a slight drop in output that won't be missed since the frequency response isn't affected.

If the input impedance of the power amplifier drops to 7k ohm at 20kHz then the output would drop by 1.2dB at 20kHz. This means that the overall frequency response would drop by .3dB from 1kHz to 20kHz. This is a very small drop. These small drops are likely the reason why relatively high output impedances from preamps are still acceptable to most AVR owners. Loudspeakers will vary a lot more in frequency response.
X4700H and Your Proposed Power Amplifier

In the case of the X4700H and your potential power amplifier the two impedances are 1.2k ohm and 10k ohm. This means the output will be 1.0dB less than if the X4700H had a 0 ohm output impedance. Unless the input impedance of your power amplifier changes significantly with frequency, this change in output level, but not frequency response, won't be noticed.

To make up for the 1.0dB down, the volume control could just be turned up 1dB if listening to pure direct in stereo. For an Audyssey calibration that might be -6dB Left, -5dB Center, -6dB Right, etc., with a really low output impedance, Audyssey would just increase the settings to -5dB R, -4dB C, -5dB R, etc., to account for the -1dB.

If you get an X6700H with an output impedance of 220 ohm, the drop will be about .2dB.

It is very easy to design an RCA input with an input impedance of 40k ohms or more. Unfortunately many power amplifiers have much lower input impedances. This low impedance situation is typical where the power amplifier also has XLR inputs and the manufacturer saves a few cents by using part of the XLR input instead of implementing a separate RCA input.


The above examples are the case where the preamp section is disconnected from the internal power amplifier channel. If the preamp is connected to the internal power amplifier then the effective input impedance the preamp sees will drop. This drop is because the input impedance "seen" by the preamp output will be the input impedance of the internal power amplifier channel in parallel with the input impedance of the external power amplifier.

Using 30k ohm as a nominal input impedance of an internal power amplifier channel, 30k ohms in parallel with the 10k ohm impedance of your potential power amplifier equals an effective input impendence of 7.5k ohms. This will in turn reduce the input to the external power amplifier by 1.3dB. Still not much to worry about unless the impedances change significantly with frequency.
 
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JonfromCB

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Guidance please. Questions about running an 3700h with power amp. Can I use a 3 channel amp and still use the AVR to control the subs and drive the surrounds? ...or do I need a 5 channel amp to power all the speakers in my surround system? Separate amp/s seem like a good way to go with AVRs at this price point. What would be some good 200wpc options? Thanks
 

Zedly

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Yes, you can run a 3-channel amp and use the AVR to power the rest. The Emotiva XPA-3 and Monoprice Monolith 3X are both good options if you need 200wpc. If you can get by with less power, the Outlaw 5000x does 5 x 120W, for around 60% of the price of the Emotiva and Monolith.
 

JonfromCB

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Yes, you can run a 3-channel amp and use the AVR to power the rest. The Emotiva XPA-3 and Monoprice Monolith 3X are both good options if you need 200wpc. If you can get by with less power, the Outlaw 5000x does 5 x 120W, for around 60% of the price of the Emotiva and Monolith.

Thanks Zedly, Based on what I gather regarding the distortion introduced from unused onboard amps', I'm thinking that shutting them down and
running all channels to a power amp would be the cleanest and in part also keep the AVR cooler too.
 
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