Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[waynel]

If I understood correctly Audioholics did not measure the 3600 and the graph was from Denon, not Audioholics.

Ah, reading it more carefully the graph was supplied by Sound United (denon), is there anything similar for the 3700H?

 

[Bello]

At this installation, there is no AC here and it has been hot (upper 80's indoors).
Preamp mode gets hot in my cabinet that has limited airflow due to the fixed shelf height and glass doors.
The unit is hottest on the center-left top. I have moved the fan blowing out (for now) to limit dust and it has reduced temperature.
I suspect the amps are disconnected but remain powered up and there are other significant heat sources.

View attachment 76426View attachment 76427View attachment 76428

- Rich

Rich- If that's the case, then at my home I see a great difference in heat when running the internal amp vs idle Pre-Amp MODE. When I run my internal amps, my temps go through the roof in an open air setup. Close to 150 degrees as I earlier mentioned in my write-up. Unlike @ idle or Pre-Amp MODE, w/ all external hook-up. Remains cool to the touch. Room temp could make a big difference too, I'm @ about 72 - 75 degrees constant. Your home has no AC and is in the upper 80's? I would keep you unit in open air, on top of your cabinet and call it a day. I would not put the Denon in a cabinet in those warm conditions, low to no air flow.

Are you running all channels externally? or just front stage? LCR maybe? If so, different ball game...

As far as your cabinet. Only choice, I would try to rip out one top shelf, above the Denon for more head room. You're defeating the purpose of the heat sinks evacuating heat out away from the unit. In essence, your case has heat hitting the top shelf then heading back down into the unit cooking your all components. Also- while pushing fan air out vs pulling air in I think is the same difference in regards to dust collection. Unless your setup is forced incoming cooler filtered air. Note- everything around that backside of the fan air will need to be sealed so no outside air gets sucked in but only constant air pushed out the front. Positive air pressure, limit dust entry, great venting purpose. Most of the heat from the Denon is at the front of the unit. Push the air out of the front. I wouldn't pull air through the cabinet to the back. I think you're defeating the purpose of cabinet cooling.

Good luck!

 

[amirm]

FYI, I am packing and shipping this unit today so that I can get on with other testing. And the owner can have it back to enjoy.

 

[waynel]

FYI, I am packing and shipping this unit today so that I can get on with other testing. And the owner can have it back to enjoy.

Please sweep the preout up to 4V or clipping with the amp disconnected. I bought one and want to keep by AHB2 on the 4V gain mode.

Please see this graph from the 3600h

 

[amirm]

You are killing me. I already packed the darn thing....

 

[waynel]

You are killing me. I already packed the darn thing....

It's worth it!

 

[peng]

Ah, reading it more carefully the graph was supplied by Sound United (denon), is there anything similar for the 3700H?

I am sure if Amir asks Denon/SU for one he will get it. I bet it would be pretty much the same because most likely the same volume control IC is used in the 2020 Denon and Marantz AVRs. Marantz will be a little different because of the HDAMs.

 

[amirm]

It's worth it!

OK, here it is:

Notice that I have to turn the volume up to 89 or you won't get 4 volt output. Once there, the AVR switches gain stages causing performance to drop across the board. In addition, as the graph says, you can't go to 4 volts. Max usable is 3.73 volts.

 

[amirm]

Please sweep the preout up to 4V or clipping with the amp disconnected. I bought one and want to keep by AHB2 on the 4V gain mode.

Please see this graph from the 3600h
View attachment 76442

BTW, their measurements may be with analog input where they have flexibility to set the input level and get around gain staging issue I talked about. I am using digital input where the DAC inside determines the levels so no flexibility. This of course is the primary usage scenario than using analog input.

 

[waynel]

OK, here it is:

View attachment 76454

Notice that I have to turn the volume up to 89 or you won't get 4 volt output. Once there, the AVR switches gain stages causing performance to drop across the board. In addition, as the graph says, you can't go to 4 volts. Max usable is 3.73 volts.

much appreciated!

 

[Castortroy3]

I bought the 3700H open box from my dealer. Unfortunately, the MIC box was empty so that options is out for this year since my vacation ends soon. A new MIC is being mailed but probably not in time.

- Rich

I trip over my Mic cord and broke the connector. They actually send you a different mic so I question whether the replacement mic is calibrated to your receiver.

 

[bobopich]

BTW, their measurements may be with analog input where they have flexibility to set the input level and get around gain staging issue I talked about. I am using digital input where the DAC inside determines the levels so no flexibility. This of course is the primary usage scenario than using analog input.

Question for who may know : would it be the same output level with VOL at 89 and let’s say VOL at 82 and channel trim level at +7 dB ?

 

[amirm]

Question for who may know : would it be the same output level with VOL at 89 and let’s say VOL at 82 and channel trim level at +7 dB ?

That may cause clipping in digital domain and cause some kind of compression or worse. So I would not go there.

 

[rvsixer]

Well I was just going to online chat with Denon, to try and clear up the seemingly ongoing question as to whether preamp modes do or do not turn off the disconnected amps (we have very knowledgeable members here saying do the do not turn off, and a couple of staunch members saying yes they do claiming their unit runs much cooler in preamp mode).

Well it looks like the only allow one minute of chat per week LOL. From their website:

Live Chat
We're sorry, chat is currently unavailable

Chat hours are listed below.

Monday - Thursday: Closed

Friday: 11:59 PM - 12:00 AM EDT

Saturday - Sunday: Closed

It is currently Monday, Aug 03, 2020 04:36 PM EDT


Anybody got a kill-a-watt or similar meter they can throw on an idle 3700 in both full internal amp and full preamp modes? Should answer the question quickly.

 

[Chromatischism]

I trip over my Mic cord and broke the connector. They actually send you a different mic so I question whether the replacement mic is calibrated to your receiver.

They are all the same.

 

[bigguyca]

If I understood correctly Audioholics did not measure the 3600 and the graph was from Denon, not Audioholics.

You are correct

Denon also didn't provide any indications of how those measurements were made. Audioholics just showed whatever they were fed without any critical thinking, which is typical at Audioholics.

 

[bigguyca]

Any chance to push the LR preouts to 4V with the amp disconnected? Audioholics did this with the 3600H and the results were pretty good. Wondering if the 3700H is good at 4V as well.

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3600h

View attachment 76434

Just to reinforce a point...

Denon provided this graph with no details of how these measurements were made. Why are you claiming that Audioholics made these measurements?

 

[waynel]

Ah, reading it more carefully the graph was supplied by Sound United (denon), is there anything similar for the 3700H?

Just to reinforce a point...

Denon provided this graph with no details of how these measurements were made. Why are you claiming that Audioholics made these measurements?

I’m not claiming that. I saw that graph linked to audioholics. When I read the whole review I saw that that plot was provided to them by denon .

 

[Anterantz]

Not directly related, but this also answers to my previous question, and I believe @Anterantz 's as well, about if/why the unit does not run cooler in preamp mode.

Pity. IIRC, the older Pioneer Class D AVR's I used in a previous job testing streamer boxes, you could shut off amps individually. Denon needs to get to that in the next gen. Back to looking at seperates again.

hello maybe you don't explain me well, I have never been able to test the 8500h in preamplifier mode because my room is about 11m2 and this denon has a lot of power!

My doubt was generated in that if I use an hour of music in 2ch the device is as hot as if I am watching a movie, and I wonder how they are just as hot using only two channels as using 9 channels?

Then I was digging and I created a preset in the app only for stereo since the 8500h has a "preamplifier" mode and a "customize" mode that a priori you can turn off the internal stages that you don't use ... turn off all the internal stages leaving just the front ones and pass audyseey!

It should be less hot this way but after an hour of music the heat is the same.

Eye I have never noticed that this unit gets hot enough to make steaks, it gets hot normal nothing to do with my old sr7013


So my question is, if I use the "customize" mode, I turn off all the stages that I don't use a priori, should I have more watts when distributing the transformer for fewer channels, right? Well I have not noticed that I have more energy using 7 speakers than using 9!

 

[bigguyca]

BTW, their measurements may be with analog input where they have flexibility to set the input level and get around gain staging issue I talked about. I am using digital input where the DAC inside determines the levels so no flexibility. This of course is the primary usage scenario than using analog input.

Agreed.

It was is rather amazing (well maybe not) that Audioholics published that graph without getting the measurement setup from Denon. Perhaps Audioholics doesn't even understand the significance why knowing the measurements setup makes a difference.

Another option in addition to using an analog input is to use feed the signal digitally to the Center channel. The Center channel signal still uses the best filter circuit, as do the L/R channels, after the DAC (if the X3700H is like the X3600H). The Center channel also uses a better input to the volume control, where switching between two inputs does not take place in the volume control. The datasheet shows better performance with this unstitched input. The improvement might be just enough to provide the performance shown on the Denon provided graph.

See the top two charts on page 15 of the attached datasheet for the NJU72343. L/R channels use inputs A1 and B1 and outputs A and B. The Center channel uses input C and output C. The C signal flow has better rated performance.

https://www.njr.com/electronic_device/PDF/NJU72343_E.pdf