Ground loops (leakage current loops) can still form between gear with 2 prong plugs
Curious, do you hear hum/buzz from only one speaker or both? They are wirelessly connected to each other or ethernet cable?
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Ground loops (leakage current loops) can still form between gear with 2 prong plugs
Curious, do you hear hum/buzz from only one speaker or both? They are wirelessly connected to each other or ethernet cable?
pedrob
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2020
- Messages
- 138
- Likes
- 45
Then I'd suggest the 3600H is just completing the loop and it's worth checking everything that's connected to it. Maybe unplugging one piece at a time might help identify the culprit.
Do you have anything connected to the signal gnd? If you have, try removing it. If not, try connecting it to your main grounding point.
I had something similar with an older Denon AVR and my DIY active speakers with Hypex Plate amps. In my case the problem was a pretty bad 5 m Cinch cable, wich collected alot of 50 Hz hum, while the AVR is turned off. Two things helped:
1. After turning on the AVR, the problem went away. I think the preouts of the AVR are floating, while it is turned off. Since I also got the problem, when the cinch cable was not connected to the AVR and shorting it manually made the hum go away.
2. Using a better screened Cinch cable made the problem go away.
Maybe the screen of the bad cable is defect, I haven't checked it.
Hope that helps.
pedrob
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2020
- Messages
- 138
- Likes
- 45
Reminds me of a QED Subwoofer cable I had. Shielded twin core that was inserting random crackle into my subwoofer. On slicing a small slither of outer casing to reveal the shielding I discovered the shielding wasn't connected to either RCA plug. The solution was to gently solder a grounding cable to the shielding and tape it up.
The grounding wire was connected to the Denon Signal GND post.
Are any other pieces of equipment that are connected to the Denon fitted with 3-prong plugs? disc player, TV set, streamer, cable box, satellite box, home theater computer...? They are all connected to the ground of the Denon through their coax shields. Also, if you have an outdoor antenna connected to your TV ( or a dish connected to a satellite receiver) these are required to be grounded under National Electrical Code. Your cable line for a cable box also supplies a groun d via it's coax that will then be connected to the Denon via the HDMI cable.
You can send them a note, but good luck with that. It's also available iOS so if you or a family member has an Apple device you could try that as well.
Good luck!
The measurements will tell you if the item does a good job reproducing the music, or not.
It's all in the numbers.
The measurements will tell you if the item does a good job reproducing the music, or not.
It's all in the numbers.
When I had a Denon avd-2000 and Harmon/kardon adp-101 and for dollby digital material the HK sounded better.
No numbers for each on however just going by "house sound"
Doing what? Was the playback under blind conditions, in a pure stereo mode, with the levels matched to 0.2db and switching between them being rapidly performed?
Or with no controls what so ever?
When using Dolby surround decoding you have no idea what's going on in there without measurement.
Propheticus
Senior Member
What will a stereo playback of dolby digital surround material test tell you if your intended use is playback over a 5.1 speaker setup? Who knows what each unit does differently in their stereo matrix (surround channel included or not, level of centre and level of LFE mixed into each channel).
Yes there are standards for that. But there are plenty of deviations (sometimes configurable).
Then there's the differences in individual AVR/AVP units available enhancements, dynamic range compression, dynamic eq, THX settings, cinema eq, dialogue level adjustment, etc, etc. Which might explain why you'd prefer one over the other for your home situation. Not something a test in pure stereo will tell you.
Yes there are standards for that. But there are plenty of deviations (sometimes configurable).
Then there's the differences in individual AVR/AVP units available enhancements, dynamic range compression, dynamic eq, THX settings, cinema eq, dialogue level adjustment, etc, etc. Which might explain why you'd prefer one over the other for your home situation. Not something a test in pure stereo will tell you.
Problem is it's impossible to compare one unit to another for accuracy (sound quality) when they're all using different DRC software, each users implementation of these software's are going to be different, etc, etc. In the end there's no way to state which one is better, all totally subjective and based on personal preferences.
Propheticus
Senior Member
And that's what rccarguy did. He thought one "sounded better" than the other. This can be caused by any of the enhancements or difference in decoding/matrix. Can of course (also) have something to do with objective "quality" with every option off....or not at all.
We assume you mean Denon AVR-X3600H (not "3060"). Is that even available still? It tested excellently and we have one driving a 5.1 Focal system-it seems to do fine even though the Focal are tough to drive (936, CC900, SR900). The Audyssey Room EQ noticeably smoothens bass tone sweeps. I've had many Denons for years and been quite satisfied. To me they generally sound like nothing at all, which is wonderful.
- NAD 777 v3 has Dirac, which is also a powerful room EQ. BUT you need to check what version is actually included, Dirac has a nasty habit of wanting a bunch more money to "unlock" advanced features.
- Yamaha's YPAO can also work fine but is not as sophisticated so won't help some situations as much. Yamaha does have an intelligent variable loudness feature, however I cannot tell if the 2070 has it.
The numbers don't lie.
Because for most speakers, you don't need huge amounts of power. And even if the NAD or Arcam have 20-30 more watts per channel, it's not going to make much difference. If you have speakers that the 3700 cannot drive, you'll need a separate amp(s) with big power, anyway.
I agree with you in principle that 20-30 W don't make much difference, but I think you got the numbers backward. The ASR tests actually show the Denon had almost 30 W higher output, and at much lower distortion level (86 dB SINAD for the Denon vs 77 dB for the NAD. The NAD did a little better in the dynamic peak output
The ASR tests show the AVR-X3600H and X3700H have more output into 4 ohms than the NAD T777 and at much lower distortions too.
Why couldn't it be? Because of price? Price does NOT guarantee a better product. For instance you can find various more expensive cars* which are inferior to cheaper cars, and receivers (Anthem for instance IIRC) which are quite more expensive but their performance less. Price depends NOT on the parts or features as much as people think. Price depends on production volume very very very much. That's how a multichannel AVR with 13,726 features can be cheaper than a stereo integrated with only a volume knob.
And expensive products can still contain flaws, like how my brother and mom's several BMW turbo cars all have had a tip-in throttle lag from a stop, and would fail to turn off the turn signal indicator after completing a lane change (which even cheap Hyundais can manage fine). Now I'm not aware of flaws offhand with those AVRs, though 777 needed a firmware update for the Dirac to work which scares the hell out of me; I'm always afraid updates of AVRs/TVs may brick the device and the manufacturer hapless and/or unhelpful to fix it.
*I used to test drive extensively Honda/Acura, BMW/Mini, Mercedes. I assure you the more expensive car was not always better, nor even quieter or more powerful. You can also see with with some Aston Martin or Jaguar or etc etc...the more expensive vehicle maybe be less common and more exclusive, but reviews no better.
