• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

tpeter

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
33
Likes
16
The first post in this thread shows exactly how much power this AVR produces into 4 ohms, including distortion numbers, continuous power, and burst power. It's likely to be more power than your speakers can handle without being driven into horrible distortion and compression.

So if more power than they can handle I should be good at moderate sound levels ?
 

tpeter

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
33
Likes
16
Just read over again and ty it looks good for 4ohm

The amp is not "rated" for 4 ohm by the way due to legalize (keeping the amp from getting too hot during safety testing). But works absolutely fine. To wit, you can push it even harder if you allow higher distortion level or allow burst of power:
 

hawk01

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
199
Likes
95
Location
south of the equator!
Audysey XT32 and Sub Eq HT are two different features. Audysey XT32 applies correction to speakers only..usually full range unless you have the app to limit correction. Sub EQ HT is what eq's the sub or subwoofers. The app is definitely worth the $20 charge or whatever. You can remove the BBC dip it applies, manually tweak the response anyway you want. But yes, if you don't limit correction, it will apply eq all the way out to 20 KHz. Since well designed speakers will typically have a downward sloping response out to 20 KHz, yes, Audysey will make things "too" flat out to 20 KHz imo. It is generally accepted that the in room response of well designed speakers should not be eq'd above the 3-500ish Hz range.

I prefer to use DEQ as it makes listening at lower levels more enjoyable imo. The downfall of DEQ is that I feel like it does tend to boost the surround speakers too much, so I simply turn the surround levels down a few dB.

@Bear123 pls send me link to the Audyssey app where you can tweak the freq response. I may need to check this iut first before buying the X3600H. thanks!
 

ganon

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
10
Likes
15
Have a couple of questions, one old one...

1) Per hawk01’s first question, when using the internal amp, would SINAD become lower than 99 from the review in this thread (which needed internal amp turned off just to get the score of 99)? I’m only using it for stereo actually and hawk01 was asking about 5 channels.

2) With Audyssey turned on, does that mean that any signal, especially even analog inputs like CD IN, get downsampled to 24-bit, 48 kHz?

3) Even with Audyssey turned off and using CD IN, when the speakers are set to “Small,” it will digitize and downsample to 96 kHz. Turning on direct mode would give the original non-downsampled signal, but subwoofers won’t have sound unless maybe I set them to “large?”

Also, does this mean that, when the speakers are set to “Small” and NOT in direct mode, but I have a nicer DAC going into the CD Input, the quality of that nicer DAC gets “overridden” by the x3600h’s internal DAC therefore losing some sound quality, going back to SINAD of 99 or lower?

Or, maybe this all doesn’t matter because the analog input’s SINAD might still about the same as the internal DAC’s score of 99 (...maybe based on the updated x4700h review)?

4) FYI, when using the video overlay features, the colors were very slightly off, noticeable when using HDMI from my laptop. I only tried overlay once though. It seemed convenient to adjust the AVR’s settings with video still in the background. The off color was fixed as soon as the overlay features were turned off. Also, I keep it off just to be a purist and maybe keep picture quality up and latency as low as possible, if that even matters. I still keep it on “movie,” but switch to “game” when I feel like being picky. Not sure there are much measurements of DSP vs latency with home audio and other things like SVS SB-2000 Pro’s internal EQ and other powered studio monitors with room EQ.
 
Last edited:

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,615
Likes
5,168
Have a couple of questions, one old one...

1) Per hawk01’s first question, when using the internal amp, would SINAD become lower than 99 from the review in this thread (which needed internal amp turned off just to get the score of 99)? I’m only using it for stereo actually and hawk01 was asking about 5 channels.

2) With Audyssey turned on, does that mean that any signal, especially even analog inputs like CD IN, get downsampled to 24-bit, 48 kHz?

3) Even with Audyssey turned off and using CD IN, when the speakers are set to “Small,” it will digitize and downsample to 96 kHz. Turning on direct mode would give the original non-downsampled signal, but subwoofers won’t have sound unless maybe I set them to “large?”

Also, does this mean that, when the speakers are set to “Small” and NOT in direct mode, but I have a nicer DAC going into the CD Input, the quality of that nicer DAC gets “overridden” by the x3600h’s internal DAC therefore losing some sound quality, going back to SINAD of 99 or lower?

Or, maybe this all doesn’t matter because the analog input’s SINAD might still about the same as the internal DAC’s score of 99 (...maybe based on the updated x4700h review)?

4) FYI, when using the video overlay features, the colors were very slightly off, noticeable when using HDMI from my laptop. I only tried overlay once though. It seemed convenient to adjust the AVR’s settings with video still in the background. The off color was fixed as soon as the overlay features were turned off. Also, I keep it off just to be a purist and maybe keep picture quality up and latency as low as possible, if that even matters. I still keep it on “movie,” but switch to “game” when I feel like being picky. Not sure there are much measurements of DSP vs latency with home audio and other things like SVS SB-2000 Pro’s internal EQ and other powered studio monitors with room EQ.

1) The curve shows the SINAD at different pre-out output voltages, you can see that if varies from about 92.5 dB at below 0.5W to better than 100 dB at 2 V.

If you are using the internal amps, the overall SINAD at the amplifier outputs would of course be much lower, depending again, on the output level, but this time you should be looking a the graph dB vs watts as shown in the second graph below the first one:

1604671926445.png


1604672164439.png


So the answer to your question is, it depends. Fortunately, thanks to @amirm, who has been providing us with the most detailed bench tests I have ever seen available on the internet.

Note that the power amplifier out levels are directly related to the pre-out levels. Given the gain of the Denon AVR is about 29 dB, the following table should give you an idea of the approx. power output at different pre out voltage levels, based on an 8 Ohm resistor load.

Preout voltage ............................................................................................ Power amp output

0.1 ................................................................................................................. 1 W
0.225 ................................................................................................................. 5 W
0.32 ............................................................................................................... 10 W
0.75 ............................................................................................................... 56 W
1.0 ...............................................................................................................100 W
1.2 ...............................................................................................................143 W
1.5 .............................................................................................................. 223 W

2) & 3) If you use analog input, CD or not doesn't matter, in direct and pure direct mode the signal will remain analog all the way from input to pre out. In stereo mode, if you don't use any DSP functions and/or bass management the signal would still remain analog, that is, will bypass the ADC and DAC. Even in direct mode, you can have the subwoofer on and still avoid the signal being digitized.
 

Pdxwayne

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
3,219
Likes
1,172
Hello, I have Marantz AV8801 and the remote is broken a while back and it seems there is no replacement available. Right now this Denon is on sales at $800. Does it makes sense to replace my Marantz AV8801 with this Denon?
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,782
Yes. It is hard to believe but yes. You loose out on balanced connections, but gain quite a lot in performance. It seems hard to believe with the retail pricing being so different. The only thing that you may consider is the x3700 if you want to use the receiver as just a preamp As it has a full preamp mode which disconnects all of the amps for best performance. But if you want to use all of the internal amps or some of the internal amps, the x3600 is a great option.
 

Pdxwayne

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
3,219
Likes
1,172
Yes. It is hard to believe but yes. You loose out on balanced connections, but gain quite a lot in performance. It seems hard to believe with the retail pricing being so different. The only thing that you may consider is the x3700 if you want to use the receiver as just a preamp As it has a full preamp mode which disconnects all of the amps for best performance. But if you want to use all of the internal amps or some of the internal amps, the x3600 is a great option.
Thanks. I do want the option to use preout as I have multiple stereo amps.....

I don't know about the performance part as AV8801 does not use the same DAC as the newer ones that were measured here. Hard to do comparison....
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,782
@peng will have better advice in regards to the 8801 vs the 3600/3700 as I believe he has/had one I think. If you don’t want to use any of the internal amps, I would get the x3700 and use full preamp mode. The x3600 or x3700 will both perform quite a lot better than the 8801 I would think, based on reviews of the 8805/7705 Here.
Darin
 

Pdxwayne

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
3,219
Likes
1,172
@peng will have better advice in regards to the 8801 vs the 3600/3700 as I believe he has/had one I think. If you don’t want to use any of the internal amps, I would get the x3700 and use full preamp mode. The x3600 or x3700 will both perform quite a lot better than the 8801 I would think, based on reviews of the 8805/7705 Here.
Darin
Thanks. In post #20 of https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...z-av7705-home-theater-processor-review.11359/, it seems AV7701 measured better? Thus I am thinking my 8801 might also be better as compared to the 7705?
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,615
Likes
5,168
Thanks. I do want the option to use preout as I have multiple stereo amps.....

I don't know about the performance part as AV8801 does not use the same DAC as the newer ones that were measured here. Hard to do comparison....

The 8801 has a better DAC, the PCM1795 that has comparison specs to the 8805's AK4490. All other current Marantz AVP and AVR models now use the AK4458 that has lower specs compared to the PCM1795 and AK4490. The AK4490 is only used in the Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805.

The AV8801's volume control IC is not as good as the ones used in all current D+M models. Even the entry level Denon/Marantz AVRs have the better volume control IC. If you compare the THD+N specs of the volume control and DAC ICs, you will find that the volume control IC is the bottleneck for the AV8801 and AV8802.
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,782
The 8801 was tested at hometheaterhifi link
I’m not the one to interpret such things but this is what the got on XLR at 2V. On XLR, Amir uses 4V.
 

Attachments

  • CE66B73D-BEAD-4C58-A286-58C8233F57F4.jpeg
    CE66B73D-BEAD-4C58-A286-58C8233F57F4.jpeg
    210.6 KB · Views: 99

Pdxwayne

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
3,219
Likes
1,172
The 8801 has a better DAC, the PCM1795 that has comparison specs to the 8805's AK4490. All other current Marantz AVP and AVR models now use the AK4458 that has lower specs compared to the PCM1795 and AK4490. The AK4490 is only used in the Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805.

The AV8801's volume control IC is not as good as the ones used in all current D+M models. Even the entry level Denon/Marantz AVRs have the better volume control IC. If you compare the THD+N specs of the volume control and DAC ICs, you will find that the volume control IC is the bottleneck for the AV8801 and AV8802.
Thanks for the information! Regarding volume control, it is used no matter what mode one is selecting, like using pure direct vs using room eq, etc., am I correct?
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,615
Likes
5,168
Thanks for the information! Regarding volume control, it is used no matter what mode one is selecting, like using pure direct vs using room eq, etc., am I correct?

Yes, the signal, analog or digital, must flow through the volume control IC. It is basically the heart of the preamp section. In the case of the AV8801 and 8802, it is the same IC that does a whole bunch of things, it is a LSI chip, i.e. large scale integrated.. Starting in about 2016, D+M has upgraded to separate ICs that offer better THD+N specs than the LSI chips used in their prior model. NAD (not sure about their 2020 models), Yamaha appears to be still using LSI chips, though the one Yamaha has been using seems to have a little better specs.

If you are interested, there are a quite articles on this topic, below is just one:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/technic...vr-audio-video-reciever-build-quality-part-v/
 

Pdxwayne

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
3,219
Likes
1,172
Yes, the signal, analog or digital, must flow through the volume control IC. It is basically the heart of the preamp section. In the case of the AV8801 and 8802, it is the same IC that does a whole bunch of things, it is a LSI chip, i.e. large scale integrated.. Starting in about 2016, D+M has upgraded to separate ICs that offer better THD+N specs than the LSI chips used in their prior model. NAD (not sure about their 2020 models), Yamaha appears to be still using LSI chips, though the one Yamaha has been using seems to have a little better specs.

If you are interested, there are a quite articles on this topic, below is just one:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/technic...vr-audio-video-reciever-build-quality-part-v/
Thanks! Interesting read.

I am now wondering about the volume IC in those older integrated amps from over 20 years ago, like Yamaha dsp1. Are those any better?

Also, I am using node2i to control volume of digital signal sent to Khadas Tone Board (it is directly connected to power amp). I wonder using node2i fixed output would bypass the volume IC or not. If yes, maybe I can use passive volume control between KTB and my amp instead of using node2i to control volume.
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,615
Likes
5,168
Thanks! Interesting read.

I am now wondering about the volume IC in those older integrated amps from over 20 years ago, like Yamaha dsp1. Are those any better?

Also, I am using node2i to control volume of digital signal sent to Khadas Tone Board (it is directly connected to power amp). I wonder using node2i fixed output would bypass the volume IC or not. If yes, maybe I can use passive volume control between KTB and my amp instead of using node2i to control volume.

I don't know, but I have seen some schematics of the Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp so I know it uses an older version of the basically same LSI chip used in the Yamaha AVRs. Same for the A-S701 but the older S700 did not use IC iirc..
 

Timbo2

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
497
Likes
396
Location
USA
A bit of good news for us owners of the AVR-3600H

Denon & Marantz Firmware Update Adds DTS:X Pro & Key Audio Feature Back!

Essentially Dolby now allows licensees to again allow "center spread" on 2 channels sources. I just tried it and like it on music, but not so much on dialogue. In my use case watching YouTube videos on the main TV. But it's always good to have options.

In this case there is no downside as you can turn it off or on at will. Note you can only view the option while you are actively using Dolby Digital. It's buried in the Audio setting. One odd note - when I did the firmware upgrade on my 3600 I had to do it twice. It looks like there is the upgrade update that allows center spread and an update to that update.
 

Benedium

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
343
Likes
255
I only got one update.
Maybe I did it later than you did.
And u are right. The option seems to only appear if the source is Dolby Digital(DD), which in my case is when I'm watching free-to-air stuff or youtube on my smart tv. When the source is Dolby Digital, the centre spread option is found under Setup - Audio - Surround Parameter. Enjoy!
 
Top Bottom