Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

[Propheticus]

It's all relative, do you have a suck-out or is it a low area compared to the peaks/room-modes in the rest of bass range?
Fixing those peaks and then raising the overall (sub) trim for bass, can indeed sound a lot better.

As you've noticed, the results depend on placement. So be careful in your mic placement and match it with your seating.
Conversely: if you can't move your speakers/sub you might be able to move your listening position to a spot without the 'suck'.

Lastly you can look at timing (phase) between your subs and main speakers to make sure they are not cancelling each other out in the crossover range.
Audyssey measures and compensates for distance differences (and processing delays, because what it actually measures is delay which it then turns into distance). Again accuracy depends on accurate mic placement. (The calculation in Denon AVRs that turns the saved distances back into relative delay compensation between channels is of by a factor 300/343 > manually correct distances by multiplying them by 0.875)

 

[Audiomn]

Can't. Speakers, TV, TV cabinet are staying put. Only place to put them in the living room.

Even a few inches or feet can make a difference, also play with phase. My best advice is to grab a UMIK-1 microphone and use REW to dial it all in. It’s VERY enlightening to see what’s actually going on.

 

[Audiomn]

Also, make sure to see what’s happening with your mains, make sure you have them crossed at 80hz. Check phase and levels across the room with the subs individually, and then add them in one at a time.

 

[Propheticus]

Reflection absorption - is that generally behind the speakers or ? How do I test to find out where the treatment is needed?

For bass, it's mainly big bass traps often put in corners... Not really something many would want to put in their living room.
What remains is placement and correction.

 

[01svtL]

It sounds like I need a new AVR then anyway, as even if I get a UMIK and run REW, I don't believe I have the ability to adjust the curve with my current NAD/Audyssey XT. The only things I can see in the menu after running Audyssey are distance, volume levels and crossover point.

Upon running Audyssey, after the first mic position, it does say something is out of phase - but I read that XT often did this even whether true or not. I tried flipping the phase switch on the back of the sub (back when I only had the HSU) and it still said out of phase, so I paid no attention to it.

 

[Audiomn]

It sounds like I need a new AVR then anyway, as even if I get a UMIK and run REW, I don't believe I have the ability to adjust the curve with my current NAD/Audyssey XT. The only things I can see in the menu after running Audyssey are distance, volume levels and crossover point.

Upon running Audyssey, after the first mic position, it does say something is out of phase - but I read that XT often did this even whether true or not. I tried flipping the phase switch on the back of the sub (back when I only had the HSU) and it still said out of phase, so I paid no attention to it.

The things that we’re talking about are adjusted by placement (even in small increments), phase on the sub amp, and crossover on the AVR. All of these things are adjustable with your current setup.

 

[Audiomn]

SVS has a lot of great articles to help:

https://amp.svsound.com/blogs/subwo...m_medium=amp&utm_content=article-back-to-blog

 

[Sal1950]

There's a bass suck where I have my speakers and 10" subs, for whatever reason, which is why I NEED the room correction.

It sounds like I need a new AVR then anyway, as even if I get a UMIK and run REW, I don't believe I have the ability to adjust the curve with my current NAD/Audyssey XT.

Yep, you need to be able to adjust the curves and measure the results of the correction.
You seem to be on the right path with your thinking, and looking too not spend a fortune getting there.
A new/used AVR that will at least run the Audyssey $20 add-on Editor app and the Umik is really the key.
One other thing not mentioned is playing with the listening seat position.
Moving the chair forward or back can make a huge difference in the resulting room modes.
Good Luck.

 

[Benedium]

In my small living room where front and rear walls are just 3+ meters apart, I actually crossover my bookshelf speakers now at 60hz, rather than 80hz. Audyssey calibration offered 40hz. I think the bass now sounds more complete. Tried that?

 

[Benedium]

It sounds like I need a new AVR then anyway, as even if I get a UMIK and run REW, I don't believe I have the ability to adjust the curve with my current NAD/Audyssey XT. The only things I can see in the menu after running Audyssey are distance, volume levels and crossover point.

Upon running Audyssey, after the first mic position, it does say something is out of phase - but I read that XT often did this even whether true or not. I tried flipping the phase switch on the back of the sub (back when I only had the HSU) and it still said out of phase, so I paid no attention to it.

Nothing wrong with your AVR. If cable polarity is correctly done, just click on Ignore when the error message pops up. It has to do with sound reflections from the floor or ceiling. Carpets/rugs helped with my case.

 

[Audiomn]

In my small living room where front and rear walls are just 3+ meters apart, I actually crossover my bookshelf speakers at 60hz, rather than 80hz. I think the bass now sounds more complete. Tried that?

Bass below 80hz isn’t localizable and is highly position dependent. Having your bookshelves in a fixed location producing sub 80hz (usually poorly) would likely introduce more issues with nulls & peaks. It will also be more difficult to have a smooth crossover region and could introduce more phase complexity.

Focus on placement, proper phase, even response, and a smooth crossover region first. 80hz-100hz is usually the optimal crossover for these reasons.

 

[01svtL]

More seriously, I think COVID's just jacked everything up right now, figuratively and literally. Hopefully everything will get back to normal within a month or three.

LOL, this aged well… $900 used on EBay right now.

 

[OrewaBob]

Hi there! Going back to an old topic regarding the Denon X3600 if I may. It is shutting off randomly with a protection error. It may go for weeks without problem, or occur several times in an evening. Turning off and on again fixes it and the amp works fine again for a while. If I look at the Protection History, it tells me that its problem is DC (PRTC). It has happened 24 times it tells me (this would be over the past 6 months). It is setup in a 5.2 configuration, mostly for movies, played at a reasonable level (but not quiet). The fault does not seem to be volume related, it has gone into protection mode while the program we were watching had been paused for a while. I can understand that if one of the amps had gone faulty, it could put some DC on the output, but this is intermittent.

I tried a full reset of the amp and setup again, and all was great for a week, and then Bang, it is off again. There is always a 'bang' through the speakers when it turns off. I ran new heavy speaker wires to the fronts and centre, keeping them short so that they were not looped around at the back (I thought that they could be picking up some induced voltage form a power-plug pack or the power conditioner), but that didn't help.

The amp is sitting out on a coffee table beside the centre, between the fronts, under the wall mounted TV, so plenty of ventilation. The top gets warm but not as hot as my previous Denon got. It all looks clean looking from above. The unit is about three years old and I have had it from new.

Can anyone suggest anything to help?

 

[OrewaBob]

And it changed my colon-D to a smiley face!

 

[Rednaxela]

Is there a way for you to run it only as a preamp/processor for a while?

 

[OrewaBob]

Sorry, not easily... Maybe, I may be able to borrow a 5 channel amp. Problem is that it may be fine for weeks before doing it again! So frustrating.

 

[Rednaxela]

Borrow or perhaps get one second hand.

Doesn’t have to be a power amp - an old AVR with 5.1 inputs should work too right?

 

[OrewaBob]

So the idea is to eliminate the power amps in the 3600? Do I need to configure it to ignore the amps, or will it do it automatically if there are no speakers plugged into those channels (any channels). I still have an old Denon AVR-2808 (made in Japan). I will have to see if I still have any RCA leads,

 

[Benedium]

My shutoff problems seem to have gone away after replacing my belkin surge protected power extension with an even cheaper one from the supermarket. Now it seems to work fine even with insensitive speakers like elac unifi 2.0.

 

[OrewaBob]

Interesting! I would not have even guessed that a surge protector could affect the speaker protection, but in fact I was given and fitted a multi-board surge protector just before the time that I started having problems! It was a 'Monster' branded board and so assumed quality. That would be quite funny in a way. I have plugged the receiver directly into the power point now (as it was for years before I was given it). I will let you know if this fixes my problem too

Thanks muchly!