Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

[soundrefuge]

Thanks Amir and co-workers for the great work. Your test data gave me the confidance to buy this AVR and I wasn't dissapointed until the networking failed after a week. Got another brand new one and now the same thing has happened after 10 days. So I doubt it is/was a hardware failure and must be software. I wonder(or dread) what we will find if we could study the software on these AVR's. I mean for it to corrupt the software on the unit solely through interaction via the Denon Heos apps(on IOS). Well that's the only way I could see this happening. Has anyone else had a similar experience? The Ethernet/wifi doesn't work anymore(scan finds no networks), no IP or MAC address data under information. Says router error on the display. It can still see tracks on my pi media server (upnp/dlna), but can't play them. Resetting network settings doesn't help, and resetting the whole unit also doesn't restore it to factory state either (tried via menus & button-reset). So much for their software "engineers". Other music functions still work. I'll wait for reseller/Denon to get back to me. Perhaps they studied the first returned AVR but I don't have high hopes that they did. No accountability.

 

[frangle]

Were you using a wired or wireless connection before they failed? If wired, maybe you have a hardware problem with your network connection to the receiver as two have failed after a while.
I guess the fact that you can see dlna tracks must be a cache in the unit, as without an IP it can't be accessing the network.
Can you look at your router config for attached devices? Do you see it? MAC should start 00:05:CD.
Could it be a firewall problem?

 

[soundrefuge]

Were you using a wired or wireless connection before they failed? If wired, maybe you have a hardware problem with your network connection to the receiver as two have failed after a while.

Hi frangle
Wired. What 'hardware problem' do you mean? Cable is fine, router is fine, all other network devices are fine.

I guess the fact that you can see dlna tracks must be a cache in the unit, as without an IP it can't be accessing the network. Can you look at your router config for attached devices? Do you see it? MAC should start 00:05:CD.

Not cache. Even though it doesn't show an IP in the Denon network settings it does have an IP and shows up in the network. But without MAC details. I went through all this when the first one failed(was a programmer in previous life). I can access it via the Browser menu interface(port10443) and there it just show a blank page with a single lonely underline where there used to be a full menu system.

Could it be a firewall problem?

No firewall problem. I am 99.9% sure it has nothing to do with my network and everything todo with Denon's mangled x3600h software. Question is how the hell did it happen? Only answer I can think off - their own heos app, since that's the only piece of software that interfaces tightly with the AVR. I also used Audyssea, but I assume it has limited API access.

 

[Timbo2]

Thanks Amir and co-workers for the great work. Your test data gave me the confidance to buy this AVR and I wasn't dissapointed until the networking failed after a week. Got another brand new one and now the same thing has happened after 10 days. So I doubt it is/was a hardware failure and must be software. I wonder(or dread) what we will find if we could study the software on these AVR's. I mean for it to corrupt the software on the unit solely through interaction via the Denon Heos apps(on IOS). Well that's the only way I could see this happening. Has anyone else had a similar experience? The Ethernet/wifi doesn't work anymore(scan finds no networks), no IP or MAC address data under information. Says router error on the display. It can still see tracks on my pi media server (upnp/dlna), but can't play them. Resetting network settings doesn't help, and resetting the whole unit also doesn't restore it to factory state either (tried via menus & button-reset). So much for their software "engineers". Other music functions still work. I'll wait for reseller/Denon to get back to me. Perhaps they studied the first returned AVR but I don't have high hopes that they did. No accountability.

I have the same AVR and, knock wood, it's been OK network wise. I also use hardwired. There is a reset to factory default you may want to try and see what that does for you. If that works perhaps try wireless and see if that remains stable for you.

Sometimes these embedded devices NICs don't play nicely with more complicated routing and routers. For example, SiliconDust, who make my TV tuners had an issue that took them a year to sort out where their tuners were dropping offline at 1,000Mbps. They had to work with the chip provider to get the underlying software fixed. Credit to SiliconDust, but it was long process and the bug only impacted very few people with mostly enterprise or near enterprise hardware. Worked fine for those of us with standard home networking equipment.

 

[soundrefuge]

...There is a reset to factory default you may want to try and see what that does for you.

Hi Timbo2
As I wrote, I tried that. Fact is, there is no real factory default reset available. The manual says p274: "Various settings are reset to the factory default values."

 

[Lattiboy]

After about a month and change of ownership I can’t imagine needing another receiver / pre..... ever? Honestly, the software is great, Audyssey is amazing, it doesn’t get hot, more inputs than is reasonable, and a very decent amp in a pinch!

I got bored, so I A/B’d with my pretty well regarded Onkyo P-304 preamp being fed by the same DAC and besides the volume selector being WAY more sensitive on the 304, I couldn’t tell a meaningful difference with the same power amp and speakers. I took my subs offline and used Pure Direct mode on the 3600.

PS any audio company that sells equipment without a remote should be burned to the ground!

 

[soundrefuge]

There is in fact a factory reset that is not documented in the manual, but gets sent to you by Denon customer service!

And voila, the x3600h's network works again. All I can say is, maybe it's better if we don't know how the software on these units look ... along the Woody Allen lines off .. what you don't know won't hurt you ... it will kill you

Oh in looking for a public link to give you the undocumented reset procedure I've found out I'm not alone and that this has been going on for months:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/at...network-receivers-temporary-fix-here.2304707/

What a mess, and Sound United doesn't even inform its customers or even its dealers. Amir, the AVR might have tested ok, but the software get's a head-in-the-sand panther from me.

btw: a _real factory_ reset procedure link appears in the above avforums thread, but here it is:
https://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7253/kw/Network

 

[tomstoll]

A good option to put forth for folks combining an external amp with the Denon X3500H(or 3400/3300) might be the Monoprice Monolith 2/3/5/7 channel amp. It runs around $13-$1700, seems to measure well, has enough power for most speakers, and produces full power with 1.43 volts. This would seem to keep it down in the cleaner operating range of the pre-3600 Denon's. It would be nice to know what voltage signal these AVR's are outputting at reference level. The information I've seen is using the somewhat meaningless volume levels of "79.5" or "82". I have no idea what that means. Volumes should be set to reference level in order to give meaning and context to the number. Does "79" mean 5 above reference? 10 below reference? This would be helpful for not only Denon products, but for folks using any brand of AVR that may want to upgrade to the Denon in order to get Audyssey XT32, the phone app, the excellent Sub Eq HT, and the relatively good amp and pre-out performance. If the loudest they ever listen is -5 MV on their Pioneer or Yamaha, and the Denon 3500 puts out 1.5 volts at -5 MV, then we know they will get a very clean signal to whatever amp they may want to use, and also help to make sure the amp they select can be fully driven.

i finally was able to get my hands on 3 channel monolith amp as from I read it obtains full power <1.5v

I disconnected the LR channels via the 11.2 adjustment and connected the center channel as well via rca, as are the LR channels.

I’m powering the remainder 7 , 2 side surround and 4 atmos heights via the internal amps on the 3600.

Am I missing something but I still have the volume at the same level now that it was previously when all 9 channels were fed by internal amplifier?

I was expecting louder levels at similar absolute volume references.

I usually listed at 55-60 on the denon scale of 0-98 or -24 to -25 on the -79.5db to 18db

Am I doing something wrong?

the monolith amp doesn’t have a gain control from what I can tell.

 

[Dj7675]

i finally was able to get my hands on 3 channel monolith amp as from I read it obtains full power <1.5v

I disconnected the LR channels via the 11.2 adjustment and connected the center channel as well via rca, as are the LR channels.

I’m powering the remainder 7 , 2 side surround and 4 atmos heights via the internal amps on the 3600.

Am I missing something but I still have the volume at the same level now that it was previously when all 9 channels were fed by internal amplifier?

I was expecting louder levels at similar absolute volume references.

I usually listed at 55-60 on the denon scale of 0-98 or -24 to -25 on the -79.5db to 18db

Am I doing something wrong?

the monolith amp doesn’t have a gain control from what I can tell.

Audyssey wil set your channel levels. After running Audyssey, you can check your channel levels. I would guess they would be set at 2-3db less than with just the internal amps. Audyssey will calibrate it zero the same volume whether using internal or external amps

 

[tomstoll]

for those who has added 3ch power amp for LCR to expand to 11ch, can you share what power amp was chosen? Is the different voltage out of FR vs C ( in 11ch mode) a considerable factor in making this kind of decision? If i were to add Emotiva XPA3 or Nord 3ch (NC252mp+250mp), is one better suited than the other?

I went with a monolith 3x due to the input voltage requirements being 1.43v

 

[pedrob]

I just registered because I am sick and tired of reviewers who are so overcome by specifications they hear improvements they previously missed. It can be seductive when they make outrageous claims such as locating individual instruments or increased precision. In the end, all I can do is quote John Lennon: Gimme Some Truth.

 

[hawk01]

to the X3600H owners out there: is there anyone utilizing it as a stand alone avr without any external amplification? if you answer yes, pls read on! i am considering this avr on the merits of its measured performance and reputable internal amplifier capability. secondary benefits would be audyssey xt32 room EQ with subwoofer customization (at a cost per separate review) and native spotify onboard which is hopefully stable and reliable with all the licensing issues, etc. i’ve had so-so spotify service from my yamaha avr which according to spotify they do not support anymore...

now on to my Q&A: my set up is just 5.2 home theater and 2.2 for music use.

1. as per @amirm review of its digital section via the pre-outs, will there be an impact on DAC performance even if i am only using 5 channels of its internal amplification?

2. since all channels have a shared power supply, what kind of amplifier output can i expect with only five channels driven?

3. to those who have spotify connect, how is it???

 

[tomstoll]

to the X3600H owners out there: is there anyone utilizing it as a stand alone avr without any external amplification? if you answer yes, pls read on! i am considering this avr on the merits of its measured performance and reputable internal amplifier capability. secondary benefits would be audyssey xt32 room EQ with subwoofer customization (at a cost per separate review) and native spotify onboard which is hopefully stable and reliable with all the licensing issues, etc. i’ve had so-so spotify service from my yamaha avr which according to spotify they do not support anymore...

now on to my Q&A: my set up is just 5.2 home theater and 2.2 for music use.

1. as per @amirm review of its digital section via the pre-outs, will there be an impact on DAC performance even if i am only using 5 channels of its internal amplification?

2. since all channels have a shared power supply, what kind of amplifier output can i expect with only five channels driven?

3. to those who have spotify connect, how is it???

ill leave question 1 to others

#2 per Audioholics: Denon engineering supplied us with their test data for the AVR-X3600H showing it was able to deliver 81.9 watts/ch with 5CH driven into 8 ohm loads. How's that for exceeding ones specs?
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3600h

#3 its fine as long as you use the app on a phone/tablet. the OSD on these leave much to be desired compared to Spotify on Appletv4k etc...


as an aside i started with powering all 9 channels internally and it seemed to power everything fine, but then again i maxed out at like -18 to -16 listening levels.

i was running 2 JBL 3800s, JBL 4500, 2 x W990s and 4 ML IC65 Atmos without issues but i went external due to FOMO.

 

[hawk01]

ill leave question 1 to others

#2 per Audioholics: Denon engineering supplied us with their test data for the AVR-X3600H showing it was able to deliver 81.9 watts/ch with 5CH driven into 8 ohm loads. How's that for exceeding ones specs?
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3600h

#3 its fine as long as you use the app on a phone/tablet. the OSD on these leave much to be desired compared to Spotify on Appletv4k etc...


as an aside i started with powering all 9 channels internally and it seemed to power everything fine, but then again i maxed out at like -18 to -16 listening levels.

i was running 2 JBL 3800s, JBL 4500, 2 x W990s and 4 ML IC65 Atmos without issues but i went external due to FOMO.

very useful inputs @tomstoll i guess the X3600H is really worth some serious consideration. i do intend to use spotify connect with my tablet as remote. i was just concerned if spotify already dropped denon from their hardware roster for the same reason they dropped all yamaha avrs!

as a follow up how was audyssey xt32 and its bass equalization feature?

 

[tomstoll]

very useful inputs @tomstoll i guess the X3600H is really worth some serious consideration. i do intend to use spotify connect with my tablet as remote. i was just concerned if spotify already dropped denon from their hardware roster for the same reason they dropped all yamaha avrs!

as a follow up how was audyssey xt32 and its bass equalization feature?

audyssey is pretty good i think but i dont have other correction systems to compare against. make sure you get the app and limit the frequency and adjust the curves if desired.

 

[hawk01]

another follow up @tomstoll did you ever notice the internal fan running when you were using the X3600H full bore all channels running?

 

[tomstoll]

another follow up @tomstoll did you ever notice the internal fan running when you were using the X3600H full bore all channels running?

my av rack is in another room so im not sure but it definitely gets very warm when i checked after a long session.

 

[Bear123]

very useful inputs @tomstoll i guess the X3600H is really worth some serious consideration. i do intend to use spotify connect with my tablet as remote. i was just concerned if spotify already dropped denon from their hardware roster for the same reason they dropped all yamaha avrs!

as a follow up how was audyssey xt32 and its bass equalization feature?

XT32 and Sub Eq HT work extremely well. As mentioned, get the app in order to limit the frequency range of correction, and customize if desired. I've ran XT32 a couple different ways and measured results have been nearly flawless in either case:

- I have run Audyseey to get the best average response over a large, 10' wide seating area. The result was that all seats were pretty good, none were perfect, but when averaging measurements over all seats, the resulting response was perfect.

- I have also run Audyseey to get the best response at a single location i.e. MLP only. This results in a flawless response at the MLP but the average response across all seating is not quite as good. In the end, I prefer to have a good response everywhere rather than a perfect response in one spot.

This is accomplished by simply altering where you place the mic for the multiple measurements. Results verified by REW.

Looks like the X3600 is currently available, and priced around $799 new. Pretty good deal for excellent objective performance and sound quality that will be sonically indistinguishable in real life from gear with SOTA measured performance. If I were in the market for an AVR, this is the one I'd be after. Fortunately, my 3300 is still chugging along just fine and sounds the same. Yay science.

 

[Zoide]

Plus the new X3700H and its bigger brothers have a hardware issue that prevents 4K 120Hz from working properly:

"Bug in HDMI 2.1 chips Affect AV Receivers, XBOX Series X & NVIDIA Graphic Cards | Audioholics" https://www.audioholics.com/news/bug-in-hdmi-2.1-chipsets

 

[Lattiboy]

another follow up @tomstoll did you ever notice the internal fan running when you were using the X3600H full bore all channels running?

I’ve had the 3600 for about five months now. Will answer a few lingering questions for you

1) Eco mode on auto is great. When you get over 50 the receiver goes into full power mode, below that unit operates almost completely cool. If you leave it off the thing will get hot, but nothing concerning to me. I’ve never heard the fan before in all my listening, and I sit about 14’ away from it in front of me.

2) It can drive even semi efficient speakers very well. However, it will become apparent it’s an AVR when trying to drive inefficient speakers to reference levels. For instance, my Monitor Audio RS6s really did improve when I used an external power amplifier, but they love lots of juice. Only at high volumes mind you, so if you listen to music “responsibly” then you likely wouldn’t notice a difference.

3) Audyssey is dark magic and I will never own a receiver without it (or Dirac or whatever). Using 2 $250 subs I was able to get absolutely jaw dropping bass response perfectly blended with many pairs of speakers. Even on my current full range floorstanders it does an amazing job cleaning up bass. I use it limited below 200-300Hz with the app. Do not use it above 400 unless you don’t like how your speakers sound. It dramatically effects the sound.

Also, Audyssey is bass shy, so I actually do a straight 3.5db bump trailing off around 100Hz in the curve editor. This lets me avoid using Dynamic EQ, which does a lot more compression and altering of the sound then just standard Audyssey. Your tastes may differ, and you may be fine with the more accurate setting.