Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

[Dj7675]

As you probably know, I am of the opinion that the X4400/4500/6400/6500H should measure as good or very similar to that of the X3600H, based on:

a) the X3500H came very close at the lower preout voltage of 1.2 V.
b) the X3600H and X4500H's layout looks extremely similar.
c) X3600H, X4500H have the same vol control and DAC ICs.
d) I have seen the SM of the X4500H.

So I would consider the X4500H, X6500H "known quantity" even though they have not been measured by ASR. Of course I can be wrong, but I bet I have a better than 50/50 chance of being more or less right.

The X3700H and X4700H are the new "generation", they are the so called 8K ready and comply with HDMI 2.1 so based on ASR's measurements, I would not touch those until we hear back from Denon.

The SR6014, same year model as the AVR-X3600H (both are the last of the 4K HDMI 2.0 models), apparently will be tested soon. I can't wait to see how close the results will be, relative to the AV7705's. Logically speaking, the preamp/DAC SINAD measurements should be very comparable.

Nice summary of the similarities, thanks for posting. One difference is see is the 4500 and up have Auro. I don’t know enough on on these things work to know if that capability can have any affect on noise/distortion. Best guess probably is that the 4500 and up will measure similiar to the 3600, but there have been so many surprising results from these AVR benchmarks as you can’t take anything for granted.

 

[peng]

Nice summary of the similarities, thanks for posting. One difference is see is the 4500 and up have Auro. I don’t know enough on on these things work to know if that capability can have any affect on noise/distortion. Best guess probably is that the 4500 and up will measure similiar to the 3600, but there have been so many surprising results from these AVR benchmarks as you can’t take anything for granted.

Yeah I read about that too, but I really don't understand, therefore cannot picture how such additional DSP related features could add noise and/or distortions if not used. I can almost picture that it might have effects is such feature is in use. So I am not saying it isn't a valid concern, I just don't know, and am interested in expert opinions on the reason behind, assuming it does have negative effects in terms of SINAD.

 

[Tachead7075]

If the price is the same, I would take my chance and buy the X4500H, not because of the slightly higher power output, but because of the better specs, features, and seemingly better build overall. I don't know why the audio specs for the 4000 series are better, but they are. I would not touch the X4700H though, not until we hear back from Denon.

Ok, thanks Peng. It's kind of a hard decision as the 3600H is a year newer and has already been tested. Still undecided.

 

[Tachead7075]

Do both the 3600H & 4500H have the same version and capabilities Audyssey wise(XT32 with Sub HQ HT)? I plan to run 5.2.4 with duel subs and 4 x Atmos. Also, would one be better then the other for running off the preouts if I ever want to run a seperate power amp for LR or LRC? And, what about streaming HIFI music? Would one be better then the other for that? Thanks again for all the help guys.

 

[kernelpanic]

Do both the 3600H & 4500H have the same version and capabilities Audyssey wise(XT32 with Sub HQ HT)? I plan to run 5.2.4 with duel subs and 4 x Atmos. Also, would one be better then the other for running off the preouts if I ever want to run a seperate power amp for LR or LRC? And, what about streaming HIFI music? Would one be better then the other for that? Thanks again for all the help guys.

This should help with comparisons.

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3600h/usa/denon-avr-x4500h/usa/

 

[Tachead7075]

This should help with comparisons.

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3600h/usa/denon-avr-x4500h/usa/

Thanks man, that is helpful.

 

[Tachead7075]

Can someone explain this Spec to me please. I know it is signal to noise ratio but, what would Line and IHF-A apply to? Thanks again guys.

https://imgur.com/HKzvv5G

 

[Tachead7075]

Well, I took your advice @peng and grabbed a sealed box AVR-X4500H with full warranty for right in between the price of the 3600H/3700H. I hope I made the right decision. It was the higher quality components, extra amp power, and 2 line display that sold me the most. I also grabbed an AC Infinity Aircom T8 to throw on top to keep it cool.

 

[peng]

Can someone explain this Spec to me please. I know it is signal to noise ratio but, what would Line and IHF-A apply to? Thanks again guys.

https://imgur.com/HKzvv5G

I wouldn't recommend that site's comparison table. There seemed to be always errors. Denon's own also have errors but seemed a little better.

 

[peng]

Can someone explain this Spec to me please. I know it is signal to noise ratio but, what would Line and IHF-A apply to? Thanks again guys.

https://imgur.com/HKzvv5G

IHF - likely refers to the standards of the Institute of High Fidelity
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=913

-A likely refers to "A-weighting". In that case, the 102 dB A-weighted would be the signal to noise ration measured/calculated with the use of a A-Weighted filter curve. If measured "unweighted", that is, without the filter, the number would naturally be lower because the signal would be the same but the noise would be higher without the filter.

For details, there are a lot to read, examples:

https://www.ap.com/technical-library/more-about-signal-to-noise-ratio-and-dynamic-range/

https://community.sw.siemens.com/s/article/what-is-a-weighting

Practically speaking, there is nothing to be concerned with the X4500H. My X4400H is as quiet as any other amps I have, including the much more expensive separates.

 

[tparm]

New Denon AVR-X3600 at Crutchfield.

I can assure you there are no scratches nor dents. But there is no box either. This was mine and it was a display model the Crutchfield retail store in Harrisonburg VA.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX3600/Denon-AVR-X3600H-2019-model.html?cc=07

 

[preload]

Can someone help clarify:
We know that when using a digital source, if we exceed 1.5V at the pre out (to feed an external amp), the pre out signal will clip and distortion shoots up ...but what if I'm using the internal power amps to drive a pair of stereo speakers...is this still a problem? Or (I'm guessing), do the internal power amps deliver their full rated output power at this preout level?

 

[SilenceoftheSamz]

Can someone help clarify:
We know that when using a digital source, if we exceed 1.5V at the pre out (to feed an external amp), the pre out signal will clip and distortion shoots up ...but what if I'm using the internal power amps to drive a pair of stereo speakers...is this still a problem? Or (I'm guessing), do the internal power amps deliver their full rated output power at this preout level?

Rephrase this please?

 

[preload]

Rephrase this please?

Thanks - in other words, consider this scenario:
Hdmi input -> x3600h dac -> x3600 preout
When the pre out level exceeds 1.5V, the pre out output signal starts to clip and distortion shoots up (my understanding). This occurs when the internal amps are not disabled using the 11.2 ch "hack."
In that exact scenario, let's say someone instead measures the signal at the speaker output of the internal power amp (rather than at the pre out) - would we also be seeing clipping/distortion?

Also what would the equivalent power output be from the internal amp be when the volume has been set to deliver 1.5V+ at the pre out?

 

[BsdKurt]

Thanks - in other words, consider this scenario:
Hdmi input -> x3600h dac -> x3600 preout
When the pre out level exceeds 1.5V, the pre out output signal starts to clip and distortion shoots up (my understanding). This occurs when the internal amps are not disabled using the 11.2 ch "hack."
In that exact scenario, let's say someone instead measures the signal at the speaker output of the internal power amp (rather than at the pre out) - would we also be seeing clipping/distortion?

Also what would the equivalent power output be from the internal amp be when the volume has been set to deliver 1.5V+ at the pre out?

If I recall correctly, it has been described that when the internal amplifiers clip, it causes the corresponding connected pre-outs to clip. So the clipping point in power vs distortion graphs in the amplifier section of the review should answer your question.

 

[preload]

If I recall correctly, it has been described that when the internal amplifiers clip, it causes the corresponding connected pre-outs to clip. So the clipping point in power vs distortion graphs in the amplifier section of the review should answer your question.

Ah! That makes sense. Thank you! Sounds like this is only an issue when using external amps, particularly ones with low gains and/or lower-sensitivity speakers.

 

[Tusharchauhan]

Airplay truncates 24-bit to 16 bit. So not good for high-res audio.

Hi Amir and members, thanks for the review and the posts. Great website, new to all this. I am in the market for buying a receiver for good quality stereo music listening and occasional HT use. I am no audiophile but do appreciate good quality sound for music. From your review, my understanding (new to all this) is that the pre-amp L/R front quality is really good in this price range. I however intend to use the amp for L/R channel for music. Are there any measurements that you posted help with objectively concluding that? If not, what is your feel for the sound quality of the amp when used for front L/R music listening? I do plan to heavily use Airplay and perhaps all this dosent matter as the bottleneck would be the source? Thanks.

 

[amirm]

Hi Amir and members, thanks for the review and the posts. Great website, new to all this. I am in the market for buying a receiver for good quality stereo music listening and occasional HT use. I am no audiophile but do appreciate good quality sound for music. From your review, my understanding (new to all this) is that the pre-amp L/R front quality is really good in this price range. I however intend to use the amp for L/R channel for music. Are there any measurements that you posted help with objectively concluding that? If not, what is your feel for the sound quality of the amp when used for front L/R music listening? I do plan to heavily use Airplay and perhaps all this dosent matter as the bottleneck would be the source? Thanks.

Hi there. Thanks for the kind words. If you turn off the internal front amps, then this is the performance you can expect when driving an external amp:

As you see, it is almost as good as it gets in an AV product.

 

[Tusharchauhan]

Hi there. Thanks for the kind words. If you turn off the internal front amps, then this is the performance you can expect when driving an external amp:

As you see, it is almost as good as it gets in an AV product.

Thanks! However, my question was - how does it compare when not using an external amp for 2 ch Music? Maybe I am not using the right terminology. I do not intend to have an external amp.

 

[amirm]

Oh. The amplifier is also above average for an AVR:

It should also have plenty of power for most people. So definitely use it and only if you run out of power, resort to an external one.