Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

[GXAlan]

It would be interesting if amps could be safely disconnected and use as a preamp. Find the cheapest 11 channel AVR, disconnect the amps and you have something that outperforms the AV7705 and AV8805 for example.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/denon/avr-x4500h.shtml

Service manual page 159 is promising. Protection Pass mode.

Actions
• This mode allows the power to be turned on without activating protections.
• This mode functions in the same way as normal power-on, except that protections are not activated.
• When using the protection pass mode, do not connect speakers to the speaker terminals.


This is if you shorted-out the amp or something like that, but maybe the amp clipping is also a protection feature. It's the only software switch that seems to be promising. I haven't had time to review the document to determine if there is a simple cable that can be removed.

 

[Xyrium]

I would love to see some manufacturers begin to take a hard line on removing component video connections. While they're at it, yank out the Phono section as well.

 

[hmt]

I have an audio science math question: using this as a preamp for multiple channels of hypex nc amps, (nc502mp) given their input sensitivities, and keeping the Denon's preamp output under 1.5v (under 80db volume), how would this combination perform? Could it get up to good volumes without audibly distorting?
Would there be better alternatives for a multichannel system?

It should be fine as long as your speaker level trims do not exceed 0 db. The "pre amp mode" is what you want for noisy active speakers where you want to drive them with a high input level tu turn their gain down.

 

[simple6]

Not shown but in 3-channel mode, output power is 125 watts.

Are there any other requests left?

You are a star, thanks!

 

[Dimifoot]

I have an audio science math question: using this as a preamp for multiple channels of hypex nc amps, (nc502mp) given their input sensitivities, and keeping the Denon's preamp output under 1.5v (under 80db volume), how would this combination perform? Could it get up to good volumes without audibly distorting?
Would there be better alternatives for a multichannel system?

I am not 100% confident, but ncores need 2V to be driven fully.
Maybe @March Audio could answer this safely

 

[March Audio]

I am not 100% confident, but ncores need 2V to be driven fully.
Maybe @March Audio could answer this safely

The NC502 has gain of 26dB so to reach full output of 500 watts into 4 ohms you need about 2.2 volts RMS in.

An input of 1.5V rms in equals 30V RMS out with 26dB gain. This is only 225 Watts into 4 ohms. If thats what you intend to do then the NC252 is a more appropriate and cheaper match as you wont use the full capabilities of the 502.

 

[carlob]

The NC502 has gain of 26dB so to reach full output of 500 watts into 4 ohms you need about 2.2 volts RMS in.

An input of 1.5V rms in equals 30V RMS out with 26dB gain. This is only 225 Watts into 4 ohms. If thats what you intend to do then the NC252 is a more appropriate and cheaper match as you wont use the full capabilities of the 502.

So if you have an input of 4V rms with 26dB gain you're going to clip the power amp input?

 

[Biblob]

I measured 2 and 4 channel output with 4 ohm load. This is through HDMI. Note that only Left and Right performance is shown in both cases (my analyzer can only handle two channels input but can output 8 channel):

View attachment 59944

As noted you go down from 152 watts in stereo mode to 107 watts with 4 channels driven simultaneously. You also incur increased distortion and noise.

Not shown but in 3-channel mode, output power is 125 watts.

Are there any other requests left?

Thanks so much Amir.

 

[hmt]

So if you have an input of 4V rms with 26dB gain you're going to clip the power amp input?

I think you will clip the amp.

 

[carlob]

I mean, most of the sources output 2V RCA and 4V XLR, if you connect a source to a NC500 with an xlr cable you are outputting 4 volts into it. Let's say a balanced dac straight into a NC500 amp (xlr connected).

 

[March Audio]

So if you have an input of 4V rms with 26dB gain you're going to clip the power amp input?

Only if you turn the volume up too far, same as with any other pre / power amp .

 

[carlob]

Only if you turn the volume up too far .

Yep, the problem is you don't know when you hit 2,2V rms. With 2V into the amp you are sure that you are not clipping the amp even at 100% volume, that's why 4v makes no sense to me unless you have a power amp with very low gain...

 

[March Audio]

Yep, the problem is you don't know when you hit 2,2V rms. With 2V into the amp you are sure that you are not clipping the amp even at 100% volume, that's why 4v makes no sense to me unless you have a power amp with very low gain...

It makes absolute sense because it gives you extra gain to deal with quieter sources (recordings).

You will know when you hit 2.2 volts because:
1. It will be spectacularly loud with 500 watts rms per channel abusing your speakers
2. Noticeable distortion will start to occur if you go higher.

 

[carlob]

It makes absolute sense because it gives you extra gain to deal with quieter sources (recordings).

You will know when you hit 2.2 volts because:
1. It will be spectacularly loud with 500 watts rms abusing your speakers
2. Noticeable distortion will start to occur if you go higher.

Sure, but at this point I'd still prefer having less gain in the amp if it needs to be used with 4v input so you can actually turn the volume (I think that the industry standard of 26dB gain was developed for redbook CD so 2V)

 

[March Audio]

Sure, but at this point I'd still prefer having less gain in the amp if it needs to be used with 4v input so you can actually turn the volume (I think that the industry standard of 26dB gain was developed for redbook CD so 2V)

No this is the way ALL amplifiers work and is correct. Its up to the user to not turn them up too much. Not all recordings go up to 0dBFS so you need additional gain.

The gas pedal can make your car go 100MPH if you press it hard enough, but you just dont press it that hard in a 30MPH limit.

 

[Trouble Maker]

The gas pedal can make your car go 100MPH if you press it hard enough, but you just dont press it that hard in a 30MPH limit.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

 

[March Audio]

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

If you dont want it to distort then dont turn it up too much!

 

[carlob]

100W in 4 Ohm means 20V out.
26dB of gain is 20x voltage gain, if you have 4v input you can turn the volume maybe until hour 9 or 10? That's why a lot of people listen to clipped music and don't even realize.

 

[Sagnet]

So I've read through the review, and all the comments here. Being a bit new to all of this, I have a question. I understand that the receiver measured very well when connected to a set of external power amps and the 11.2 trick is done to decouple the pre from the power amps for the front channels.

But how does it measure when used as a standalone pre and power amp for, say a 5.1, setup? With no external amplification. If it clips at 1.5V from the pre, how loud can you go (SPL) on a set of fairly sensitive speakers (say 89dB) before you get any measurable distortion of any significance?

 

[March Audio]

100W in 4 Ohm means 20V out.
26dB of gain is 20x voltage gain, if you have 4v input you can turn the volume maybe until hour 9 or 10? That's why a lot of people listen to clipped music and don't even realize.

No it really doesn't work like that.

I will disengage at this point.