• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

RichB

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
1,946
Likes
2,611
Location
Massachusetts
$899! You got to be kidding, you stripped out 9 channels of power amps and a decent size power supply, and no XLR?? I would say $799 at the most. And for that much money please gold plate the connectors so it can sound warm and musical like its Marantz cousins.;)

Well, you have to make it attractive to Denon ;)
They can also sell the matching 7 channel amps.

- Rich
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
397
Likes
479
Add an IOTAVX AVXP1 and you will have a pretty decent setup.
 

capt.s

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
71
Likes
50
And jitter:

index.php


Basically the same as S/PDIF.
Thanks Amir - that's encouraging. At the risk of asking a dumb question; what do you specifically mean by "too low" and "masked"?
 

MZKM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
4,240
Likes
11,462
Location
Land O’ Lakes, FL
Thanks Amir - that's encouraging. At the risk of asking a dumb question; what do you specifically mean by "too low" and "masked"?
I think “too low” means it’s below -120 so it’s too low to be audible (under test tone conditions). And when they are close to the main tone, it’s harder to distinguish Ghosh them, which is what “masked” means.
 

capt.s

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
71
Likes
50
Thanks, I was assuming what you describe as likely but I hadn't seen that terminology before. On a side note, it got me thinking what jitter actually sounds like as we spend so much time measuring and comparing specs. I found this interesting link to test tracks of varying exaggerations of jitter to gain an appreciation of how detrimental (or not) it is to music. Interesting!

http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/what-does-jitter-sound-like
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,781
OK, first attempt at running Audyssey App was a bust. As soon as it runs the chirp on the left speaker, it complains that it lost connection with the receiver. Of course it has no problem talking to it before or after that. :( Updating the AVR right now to see if that fixes anything.
Hopefully you were able to get the Audyssey app to work for you. After using it quite a bit the past couple of months, a couple things I have learned that may or may not be useful.
-While it finally makes Audyssey useable and work, it definitely can be a bit frustrating app at times and not remotely as precise as a pc app like Dirac.
-With the app it is crazy that you can’t simply stick it 2 points to draw a simple straight line target curve. As a workaround, if you are wanting to do a straightish target, under roll off select “High Frequency Roll Off 2”. I don’t know why such a thing even exists from the look of it, but it lets you start with 2 straight lines. If you put a point around 4K and a few points higher up you can get a straight line and make line up with the under 4K line.
-Midrange compensation can be turned off
-I have no idea why they wouldn’t do a pc app as well
-I have no idea Audyssey wouldn’t include 2-3 more target curves based on listener preference like a Harman type curve. Hopefully in the future as it seems like it would be a fairly simple task.
-I have attached a screenshot of points I used to get a straightish line target curve.
-A user on AVSforum created a great pc app that allows you to enter the points which works pretty well for making much more precise curves. You basically take your measurements like you normally would with the app, save it to Dropbox etc, download the PC app, and open the measurements on your pc with the pc app. See link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...-tool-tweaking-audyssey-multeq-app-files.html
Hopefully you can get the app to work and provide an opinion on Audyssey with the app. I know when I used it without the app, I did not like it. But with the app I think it does fine.
 

MZKM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
4,240
Likes
11,462
Location
Land O’ Lakes, FL
Hopefully you were able to get the Audyssey app to work for you. After using it quite a bit the past couple of months, a couple things I have learned that may or may not be useful.
-While it finally makes Audyssey useable and work, it definitely can be a bit frustrating app at times and not remotely as precise as a pc app like Dirac.
-With the app it is crazy that you can’t simply stick it 2 points to draw a simple straight line target curve. As a workaround, if you are wanting to do a straightish target, under roll off select “High Frequency Roll Off 2”. I don’t know why such a thing even exists from the look of it, but it lets you start with 2 straight lines. If you put a point around 4K and a few points higher up you can get a straight line and make line up with the under 4K line.
-Midrange compensation can be turned off
-I have no idea why they wouldn’t do a pc app as well
-I have no idea Audyssey wouldn’t include 2-3 more target curves based on listener preference like a Harman type curve. Hopefully in the future as it seems like it would be a fairly simple task.
-I have attached a screenshot of points I used to get a straightish line target curve.
-A user on AVSforum created a great pc app that allows you to enter the points which works pretty well for making much more precise curves. You basically take your measurements like you normally would with the app, save it to Dropbox etc, download the PC app, and open the measurements on your pc with the pc app. See link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...-tool-tweaking-audyssey-multeq-app-files.html
Hopefully you can get the app to work and provide an opinion on Audyssey with the app. I know when I used it without the app, I did not like it. But with the app I think it does fine.
If they just updated their default target curve to be Harman‘s or evening just a ~1dB/oct slope down, that would be amazing; but then less people would feel compelled to buy the $20 app...
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,781
If they just updated their default target curve to be Harman‘s or evening just a ~1dB/oct slope down, that would be amazing; but then less people would feel compelled to buy the $20 app...
This was my quick target curve in the Audyssey app. This was for revel m106 with no sub. with some fiddling with the pc app referenced above it can be exact and just 2 points and it will do a straight line.
 

Attachments

  • F13888C6-B71F-4FC4-A9D7-B301C20AACB2.png
    F13888C6-B71F-4FC4-A9D7-B301C20AACB2.png
    364.9 KB · Views: 249

MZKM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
4,240
Likes
11,462
Location
Land O’ Lakes, FL
This was my quick target curve in the Audyssey app. This was for revel m106 with no sub. with some fiddling with the pc app referenced above it can be exact and just 2 points and it will do a straight line.
Is there a limit to the # of adjustment points you can make? When it first came out I read people saying only 3 adjustments, and only recently did I learn that, at least with current versions, that is not the case.
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,781
No limit I know of to the number of points that I know of. Just tedious using finger.
 

simple6

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
32
Likes
17
Location
London, UK
Cheers for the detailed review of the 3600, let's hope Sound United sees how well accepted the amp has been and they review their measurement protocols for future products. Seems like the "Amp Assign" feature contributed significantly to the clean output of the front L/R preouts!

@amirm is there a chance we could also get the centre channel measured to see what kind of distortion we get in comparison to the L/R? I think many readers would wonder if the SINAD is much inferior in the remaining channels and similar to the Denon 3500 SINAD (75db?). Thanks a lot in advance! :) Keep it up!
 

A.West

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
81
Likes
132
Cheers for the detailed review of the 3600, let's hope Sound United sees how well accepted the amp has been and they review their measurement protocols for future products. Seems like the "Amp Assign" feature contributed significantly to the clean output of the front L/R preouts!

@amirm is there a chance we could also get the centre channel measured to see what kind of distortion we get in comparison to the L/R? I think many readers would wonder if the SINAD is much inferior in the remaining channels and similar to the Denon 3500 SINAD (75db?). Thanks a lot in advance! :) Keep it up!

I'm interested also how those additional channel outputs like center perform if engaging eco mode while using all external amplification. And perhaps whether engaging Audyssey hurts SINAD while net helping the audible sound.
 

thepiecesfit

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
80
Likes
53
You missed at least one step, you need to:
1. Set assign mode to 11.1ch
2. Set floor layout to 5ch & SB
3. Set Height Sp to 4ch
4. Now you should be able to set Pre-out to Front regardless of your Layout for the Heights

Once that's done, you can exit that menu and then go back to the speaker menu and select your speakers according to your actual 5.1.2 setup, for example, set you Heights, Top speakers etc., to none.

Interesting never gave this much thought. While I have the older X4400H using pre-outs to external amps for LCR and was able to perform the same steps using your instructions. Similar benefits I'm assuming?
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,781
I'm interested also how those additional channel outputs like center perform if engaging eco mode while using all external amplification. And perhaps whether engaging Audyssey hurts SINAD while net helping the audible sound.
From sort of reading between the lines of the X3500 review... If you keep it below 1.5V it performs well (around 96 SINAD). Not an expert in any way, but if your external amp requires from 1-1.5V to fully drive the amp, the performance seems pretty good. As @amirm said, above 1.5V it goes crazy. Stay away from that and it should be fine.
 

A.West

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
81
Likes
132
From sort of reading between the lines of the X3500 review... If you keep it below 1.5V it performs well (around 96 SINAD). Not an expert in any way, but if your external amp requires from 1-1.5V to fully drive the amp, the performance seems pretty good. As @amirm said, above 1.5V it goes crazy. Stay away from that and it should be fine.
Good advice, but how would I know whether I'm going over 1.5V? Any tips for keeping it under?
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
397
Likes
479
Stay below reference level e.g. 0 db on the relative volume scale (or 80 on the absolute scale). it should result in no more that 1.2V which is also the official rated output. You also have to keep in mind that the trims of the speaker levels should also not exceed 0 db.
 

Biblob

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
633
Likes
600
Surprised to see that AVR-X3600H is much better than AVR-X3500H
Me too. One would think an incremental bump in the name wouldn't deliver so much performance upgrade in this day and age. But apparently there is no certainty on performance with these AVR's.
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
397
Likes
479
The big difference is the possibility to disconnect the pre outs for the fronts from the amps. Appart of that the difference is not that big.
 
Top Bottom