Won't setting the AVR to 4 ohm result in it clipping sooner, at a lower volume?
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Denon AVR-X3500H AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Won't setting the AVR to 4 ohm result in it clipping sooner, at a lower volume?
Maybe a good way to do true real-world comparative tests of AVRs with room EQ (or any audio equipment for that matter) would be to actually measure the acoustic output of a standard reference speaker set-up connected to the AVR in a real room using a reference mic. A null test with real music files (subtracting the original audio from that recorded from the speaker output) would then allow a comparison of relative coloration of the original audio between AVRs with room EQ. Of course, things like mic placement during EQ calibration and speaker measurement would have to be carefully controlled for.
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My opinion: 3600H would be awesome for your needs, yes AWESOME. Remember that for all the differences these measurements may present in objective terms, you are ultimately using this in a less than perfect home theater set up with less than perfect speakers inside a less than perfect acoustic space, all of which will have more audible effects on your listening experience than all the criticism posted by this review. More importantly, the source content (movies) were mastered by home video post-production teams with big boom bang effects in mind not "fine detail resolution for the music connoisseur", so may not want to listen to the "micro dynamics" of your source - I mean seriously, an extra bit of "air" at 20khz from the bullet whizzing by is not worth the extra $5,000 in AVR performance. Also keep in mind, once your eyes are busy focusing on the action/drama, your ears practically go to sleep and you will NOT be able to distinguish the difference between a $2,000 DAC section and a $50 DAC section, but you will be able to hear differences in channel separation for immersive 5.2.4, loudness/dynamics and sub-bass, which is where most of your home theater audio budget should be. This 3600H has those things in spades.
@peng : Do you know if also the X6500H has the same bypass? This is what I've got in another forum
"Any analog signal presented to the Denon will be passed through a JRC NJM8080 opamp then to the AKM AK5358BET ADC, which is then steered by the TI PCM9211 DIX to the DSP which then presents the digital signal to the PCM1690 ΔΣ DAC. All of these components are tabletop radio quality at best. The ADC can only support up to 24/96kHz and the NJM8080’s performance leaves a lot to be desired.
If you pass signal via SPDIF or HDMI to the AVR, you will remove the ADC from the mix, that would be your first step at higher quality, however, it’s Achilles heel is it’s usage of the NJM8080 throughout."
I wasn't able to find the Service Manual for the x6500h. I've got this from the x6400h service manual.
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I don't think the X6500H service manual is downloadable for free anywhere so if you want to see it you would have to buy it. It is hard to imagine it won't be the same as the X6400H. I expect the two are nearly identical except the 6500 has some minor new gadgets such as the IMAX enhanced.
I don't know which other forum you got that seemingly false information, unless they referred to "stereo". Also, since 2017 (may be even 2016), Denon and Marantz, no longer use the PCM1690 DAC, definitely not for the X2400H, SR5012 and higher models so whoever claimed the PCM1690 was used must be referring to other and/or older models. So much internet forum fake info!!
In the owner's manual it says:
That means afaic (could be wrong but not likely..), the NJU72750 switcher would, in the de-energize state/or they called it disabled) pass the analog line in signal pass throught directly to the NJU72343 preamp vol ctl IC, whereas in Stereo mode it would seem that the switcher will switch over, thereby routing the signal to the AK5358 ADC. While I don't know this for fact but based on the block diagram and other pages of the schematics I thought it is a reasonable assumption on my part.
Again, there is no reason to believe the 6500 would do anything different.
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I've only posted that link for feature comparison sake; which Denon AVR model matches closely which Marantz AVR model. To go further and look for gold plated jacks on the rear it's very easy...check the pictures, you will see. I saw the gold plated jacks on the pictures I posted and the links that provide pictures of their back panels.
* Denon AVRs Series 6000, 7000 and 8000 = gold plated jacks.
Marantz 6000, 7000 and 8000 Series = gold plated jacks.
Below those series for the two brands ... no gold (nickel plated jacks).
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For people shopping for a Denon receiver don't look below the 3600 (last year's 3500 is cheezy, IMHO). And if you can stretch $100 more go for the 4500. And, never pay full MSRP, look for sales in the 30-50% range. Or go Marantz 6000 Series or above.
The main attraction course here is Audyssey MultEQ XT32 used with all the infinity of audio modes, Atmos & dts:X included (and their surround upscalers).
The main attraction course here is Audyssey MultEQ XT32 used with all the infinity of audio modes, Atmos & dts:X included (and their surround upscalers).
Wait a minute, my focus was the audio jacks and from it seems you are talking about the video jacks? If so, you are right and I am wrong, my apology. If you are talking about the audio jacks as well, I cannot see from the pictures online but will take a look next time I am in Bestbuy. If for video jacks, may be my Denon X4400H are gold plated too, I never pay attention to jacks I never used. For video I only use HDMIs.
I'm referring to ALL jacks...audio, HDMI, coax digital, ...forget video composite and components, those are for prehistoric obsolete decoration.
The Denon 4000 Series have NO gold, it starts above...the 6000 Series.
And same for Marantz, 6000 Series and above.
The Denon 4000 Series have NO gold, it starts above...the 6000 Series.
And same for Marantz, 6000 Series and above.
I am with you. I believe I did post similar thoughts in this thread. If there is one thing I have learned from our wonderful website , is not to be carried away by what is measurable but not perceptible by the human ear. IOW, in most any HT room , even a fully dedicated , treated room .... 80 dB of SINAD is good enough ... I am with NorthSky on this (Welcome back!!) too. I have a similar model, the X3400 differences are slight, perhaps Alexa or some other voice thing .. and I never found it wanting for movies.. for music? 'nother story
In HT , if one takes the time to chose good speakers with excellent linearity and dynamics, and at least a pair of potent subs, frankly I am inching toward a quatuor of subs... Work your way toward integrating these properly with the mains, this will take some time. I don't think a $5000 AVR will provide anything substantial in term of sonic performances ... Of course the $5000 model may have more channels ... wonder how much channels one needs beyond 7 + 2 Atmos ceiling speakers ??I am still annoyed to no end by the lack of ergonomics in all the AVRs on the market. No one besides the enthusiasts can operate these things ... Automation is the neglected child of the Home Theater sector.
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I really can't see it in the pictures other than the top two rows for the video stuff but okay if you are so sure I believe you and you have my apology already. Out of curiosity as I said I would still take a good look when I am in Bestbuy next time.
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Yes I am sure, if I wasn't I wouldn't have said it.
Yes I agree.
I've never said what you've just said above, you must be confusing me with someone else. Check back on tracks and see what I said and the comparisons I offered yesterday, me and not someone else. Thank you for your cooperation.
#108 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...vr-x3500h-avr-review.10053/page-6#post-273769
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* @FrantzM ... that's nice.
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Sorry, my mistake, it was someone else. Edited post to avoid further confusion.
According to the measurements on audio.com.pl, the 4500 is only marginally better than the 2400, with the latter having slightly higher odd-order harmonic distortion, except the 3rd order peak which is actually higher on the 4500 (see below). I can't imagine there would be much of a difference with the 3400/3500.
X2400H:
X4500H:
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #137
It was in default "Auto" mode. I tested all three and they make no difference whatsoever:
As you see, all three graphs are right on top of each other. This is with a high resolution FFT (256 K points) so any difference there would show up. But there isn't.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #138
Thanks for testing this - looks like just another case of 'audiophile' marketing nonsense then.
Thank you for testing this. However my conjecture was that “pure direct” mode improves the amp’s, not the DAC’s performance on this machine (much better sound in pure direct through the outboard ChordQutest compared to the onboard DAC. No difference heard in “auto” mode). If my experience is tracking the objective reality, the only way it can be happening is if amplifier’s 84 SINAD improves substantially in the pure direct mode.
You have previously shown that it was the case for Yamaha:
(although in case of Yamaha is was due to the analogue signal being digitized unless played in the “pure direct“ mode, while here it is not the case, so I agree that it is not clear how can Denon‘s amps be substantially better in “pure direct” mode).
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