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Denon AVR-A1H

AngryZeus

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Alright struggling here with what path to go down / purchase
I have a decade old Emotive processor (whatever their cheapest one was at the time)
and my Emotive amp only does 80w / channel which is very not enough for the Polk's

Choice:
- Buy the A1H to replace both the processor and amps, ~$6k (I have discount through a friend)
Or
- Buy just a Stereo amp (I have a March reservation for Hypex Nila 500 Monoblocks, and keep using the old Emotive processor. (no purchase A1H), ~$2.1k

Considering the old processor has to use optical (it only does 1080p), that maxes out at a 5.1 system

Going A1H represents a $4k additional spend but if I do not plan to go above 5.1 in the next 18mo's I'm thinking I stick to the old processor, get the Hypex monobolocks, and then upgrade AVR alongside doing all the wiring / going above 5.1
Chose to go monoblocks Nilai 500’s
Will likely go Denon once I go for the Atmos setup
The channel and audio quality on the A1H is difficult to ignore.
 

stromb0li

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Not sure if this question should be in here or separate thread, but can someone explain the value add of the Marantz AV 10 compared to the Denon AVR-A1H?

Considering the HDMI board, DSP Chipset, DACs, little to no difference on the software side, and even if the onboard amps of the A1H measure terrible you can still pre-out to external amplifier while saving $500 on the A1H vs the Marantz, what's the value prop of going Marantz? Even if dead set on requiring balanced output (XLR), you still get 4 balanced outputs on the A1H on, arguably, the most important channels (either all 4 subs or 1 sub + LCR). Even then, without balanced, pre-out from RCA to XLR to amp is likely going to be completely negligible (assuming short run-in same rack).
 

dlaloum

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Audyssey has never offered fully independent subwoofer outputs before. You could set level and delay independently, yes, but they were NOT capable in hardware of setting separate EQ for each channel. That's why none of the apps ever offered that ability, only one target curve for all subs.

However, setting separate EQs for each subwoofer is a requirement for DLBC to work. So these new Denons do have that hardware capability. This is a big change, and Audyssey could take advantage of it to improve their own subwoofer optimization as well.
That is not true... Audyssey SubEQ was provided with the flagship Onkyo/Integra models circa 2013 and onwards (until D&M bought the exclusive Audyssey licence...) - my Integra DTR 70.4 had 2 independent sub outs with SubEQ handling them individually.

So yes, it has been around for more than 10 years, but seldom implemented/used (I didn't use it either as my setup has had a single sub)
 

AngryZeus

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Not sure if this question should be in here or separate thread, but can someone explain the value add of the Marantz AV 10 compared to the Denon AVR-A1H?

Considering the HDMI board, DSP Chipset, DACs, little to no difference on the software side, and even if the onboard amps of the A1H measure terrible you can still pre-out to external amplifier while saving $500 on the A1H vs the Marantz, what's the value prop of going Marantz? Even if dead set on requiring balanced output (XLR), you still get 4 balanced outputs on the A1H on, arguably, the most important channels (either all 4 subs or 1 sub + LCR). Even then, without balanced, pre-out from RCA to XLR to amp is likely going to be completely negligible (assuming short run-in same rack).
This very good point
Only follow up is if the audio for the A1H is comparable? - with assuming using external amps.
 

peng

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This very good point
Only follow up is if the audio for the A1H is comparable? - with assuming using external amps.

There seems no reasons for it not to be comparable. Just compare the full batterry of measured performance between the X8500H and the AV8805 (measured twice), you won't a single metric that the AVP measured better, but you can find a few that the AVR measured better.

In the Masimo video, the AV10 seemed capable of 106 dB SINAD, that is about 14 dB better than the AV8805 (as measured on ASR), whereas in the other Masimo video the A1H seemed to manage about 101 to 102 dB SINAD, if those are all accurate, can anyone hear a difference? I don't think so. The $17,000 Trinnov barely manage 100 dB SINAD.

Edit: Found the video, so it's a case of about 104.5 (averaged between ch1/ch2) vs 106 dB SINAD, less than 1.5 dB difference, that's measured from the RCA, so if measured on the XLRs, the results may be the same, very comparable indeed!

1676906019500.png
 
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techsamurai

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you still get 4 balanced outputs on the A1H on, arguably, the most important channels (either all 4 subs or 1 sub + LCR).

Most important channels in terms of having balanced outputs or just in general?
 

techsamurai

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I just feel that A1H should have been separates. Make an AVP at $3,000 and an external amp for $4,000 and give them a vintage flair like the Sansui CA/BA2000 with high quality knobs like the Denon A110 and level meters. It's their flagship AVR and it's so banal.

Technics SU products and Yamaha's M-5000A and N2000A are redefining our expectations. At least Marantz is trying to compete in the looks department.

The Yamaha M5000A and 2000A should come with a see-through top cover so you can look at it all day long. Apparently, the gorgeous symmetry is meant to balance the weight and isolate the channels.

It's a toroidal vs Class D battle royale between Yamaha and Technics.
 

peng

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The A1H has higher DR/SNR than the AV10, though just about 1 dB, totally negligible, but at least it is not worse, even just measured from the RCAs.

1676907526295.png
 

stromb0li

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Most important channels in terms of having balanced outputs or just in general?
Prioritized preference in channel order to use up the balanced outputs. My guess is most folks that would use XLR pre-out are likely going to have invested in larger Left/Right (maybe center) channel speakers that are likely more capable of reproducing the sound amplified over smaller form factor surrounds/heights/atmos. For subs, if you are running the cables near power, arguably this could help cancel any mains hum between the processor/avr and amplifier.
 

peng

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Prioritized preference in channel order to use up the balanced outputs. My guess is most folks that would use XLR pre-out are likely going to have invested in larger Left/Right (maybe center) channel speakers that are likely more capable of reproducing the sound amplified over smaller form factor surrounds/heights/atmos. For subs, if you are running the cables near power, arguably this could help cancel any mains hum between the processor/avr and amplifier.

Subs may also benefit from the higher voltage in some rare cases.
 

techsamurai

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Prioritized preference in channel order to use up the balanced outputs. My guess is most folks that would use XLR pre-out are likely going to have invested in larger Left/Right (maybe center) channel speakers that are likely more capable of reproducing the sound amplified over smaller form factor surrounds/heights/atmos. For subs, if you are running the cables near power, arguably this could help cancel any mains hum between the processor/avr and amplifier.
Agreed, they should have probably used XLRs for the LCR.
 
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peng

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For a 9.4.4 setup using the A1H, would you XLR all 4 subs or XLR 1 sub to miniDSP Flex w/ Dirac Live, and XLR LCR?
I don't see any need to use a minidsp at all. More device in the signal path means more wires, distortions, and noise. If you are going to spend that much on the A1H, may as well spend another $700 on the DLBC upgrade.
 

bo_knows

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The A1H has higher DR/SNR than the AV10, though just about 1 dB, totally negligible, but at least it is not worse, even just measured from the RCAs.

View attachment 266074
I guess no need for shipping this heavy AVR to Amir. His hard work has paid off and now Denon/Marantz are using the same measurements in their presentation. A very impressive presenter and material that goes down to the gram (for the weight of the freaking cast iron feet) and mm for the chassis construction. The icing on the cake for me would be the return of AKM chips.
 

GXAlan

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peng

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I guess no need for shipping this heavy AVR to Amir. His hard work has paid off and now Denon/Marantz are using the same measurements in their presentation. A very impressive presenter and material that goes down to the gram (for the weight of the freaking cast iron feet) and mm for the chassis construction. The icing on the cake for me would be the return of AKM chips.
The TI chip in the A1H has higher SINAD than the AK4490 in the 8500 and 8805.
 
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AngryZeus

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The TI chip in the A1H has higher SINAD then the AK4490 in the 8500 and 8805.
So wait
If I mostly want to use the A1H as a AV processor, I’d be better served by the older models? And cheaper?
I feel I’m missing something or misunderstanding something
 
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