Denon AVR-A1H

[Everett T]

Just note that the xlr outs are fully configurable, not for just subs.

 

[freedomgli]

Why do you say that. Look at an example of a middle range Denon AVR: AVR-X4500H.

It was £1199 when tested. Sold this month at £850 and £775 That is an average of 33% value loss in three years. Is that what you call a rock? Have you checked used car prices?

There are several reasons for that. Inflation, currency devaluation, supply chain shortages resulting in scare supply, increasing demand. The British Pound is down 20% since September 2019 (and down 25% since 2018Q1). Combined with inflation reducing consumer purchasing power, that’s a huge toll. Also, a couple auction results do not define the market. But they are still useful. We just have to be careful how we interpret those indicators and how they compare to long-standing industry trends.

Regardless, most people keep their AVRs until they’re fully depreciated. And by fully depreciated I mean scrap value. They’re throwaway components as tech marches onward, unlike most legacy type audio separates like tube amps and certain discrete solid state stereo components that can be serviced and provide decades of reliable enjoyment. Look at what any 10 year old AVR is worth that has HDMI 1.3 connnectors, can only do 5.1 decoding, 1080p video, etc.

 

[sarumbear]

Regardless, most people keep their AVRs until they’re fully depreciated. And by fully depreciated I mean scrap value. They’re throwaway components as tech marches onward, unlike most legacy type audio separates like tube amps and certain discrete solid state stereo components that can be serviced and provide decades of reliable enjoyment. Look at what any 10 year old AVR is worth that has HDMI 1.3 connnectors, can only do 5.1 decoding, 1080p video, etc.

Respectfully, reasons why is neither here nor there. I show you that prices are not dropping like rock, nor they are anywhere near scrap value. You can always show your data to refute mine instead of telling us why you assume are the reasons.

 

[freedomgli]

Respectfully, reasons why is neither here nor there. I show you that prices are not dropping like rock, nor they are anywhere near scrap value. You can always show your data to refute mine instead of telling us why you assume are the reasons.

I’m just looking at a different timeline than you are. All AVR‘s depreciate rather rapidly and achieve scrap value within 6 to 10 years depending on product and format lifecycles. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a high-end Lexicon or a mass-market Denon or Marantz. Even the super high end AV preamp processor market is not immune. Which is why companies like Datasat and Trinnov try to offer modular upgrades and continuous product support to better justify their very high initial prices. Everyone knows that home theater formats change rapidly and most consumer electronics are disposable because of that.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Finally there is competition to Trinnov. This offers almost (20 vs 15) the same number of channels as Altitude-16 & Amplitude-16 combo (which I have) and similar power (200 vs 150W). Trinnov set-up costs US$30,000. Even with the Dirac upgrade cost added, Denon is in a different league price wise. In fact it is a steal!

I also do not see XLR only on subs an issue. You are buying an integrated surround sound amplifier, the only output other than speakers are for subwoofers (which are almost always active) and they are balanced and there are four of them! What's the problem?

Problem is that people who have $6,500 to spend on an AVR/AVP probably have enough to buy some decent balanced amps to go with their new processor. I don't consider the multichannel amplifiers included in AVR's to be sufficient in really any case, regardless of brand or price point.

 

[Brambo67]

Really nice what SU has done to make this a desirable product but the price….. in the Netherlands, where I live, I can now buy a new (silver) AVC-x8500h for les than € 3.000,00. How could I ever justify spending almost € 4.000,00 more for DIRAC and two more amps…. I think this price increase is totally ridiculous. In Europe we suffer hard from inflation, mainly through energy costs, but this… All their boxes are very much more expensive. I belief buying a 3700, 4700 or 8500 makes a lot of sense. Mind you, I bought my 4700 of € 1.399,00 in December.

 

[Dj7675]

Problem is that people who have $6,500 to spend on an AVR/AVP probably have enough to buy some decent balanced amps to go with their new processor. I don't consider the multichannel amplifiers included in AVR's to be sufficient in really any case, regardless of brand or price point.

I would guess that many in that situation would opt for the new Marantz AV10 processor. I too wish Denon would do a processor but at least there are options. As for amps, I would guess most will use them or at least some of them. Even if you get an external amp for LCR. If you are using the internal amps for some or most of the channels it makes it a good value. If you don’t use them at all it doesn’t make a lot of sense having 15 amps and a 70lb unit.

Really nice what SU has done to make this a desirable product but the price….. in the Netherlands, where I live, I can now buy a new (silver) AVC-x8500h for les than € 3.000,00. How could I ever justify spending almost € 4.000,00 more for DIRAC and two more amps…. I think this price increase is totally ridiculous. In Europe we suffer hard from inflation, mainly through energy costs, but this… All their boxes are very much more expensive. I belief buying a 3700, 4700 or 8500 makes a lot of sense. Mind you, I bought my 4700 of € 1.399,00 in December.

19/20 channel processors are very expensive. It is a new segment of the market that SU is entering and is pricing it accordingly. Most will opt for the 3800 which is an excellent value. As long as there are good options in lower models nothing wrong with SU deciding to go after a new segment of the market.

 

[DanInCanada]

I’m just looking at a different timeline than you are. All AVR‘s depreciate rather rapidly and achieve scrap value within 6 to 10 years depending on product and format lifecycles. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a high-end Lexicon or a mass-market Denon or Marantz. Even the super high end AV preamp processor market is not immune. Which is why companies like Datasat and Trinnov try to offer modular upgrades and continuous product support to better justify their very high initial prices. Everyone knows that home theater formats change rapidly and most consumer electronics are disposable because of that.

If you have a 2016-era (Yamaha 3060, Denon x3300 I think...) I'd pay well above "scrap value."

Technology "churn" with new features is a killer if you're trying to stay ahead of the curve (E-ARC, high-framerate gaming and HDR, now newer room correction tech as is being discussed) but for many of us 4k pass-through and DTS:X support is enough. I think that goes back to 2014 or so. Preamp/processors or even old AVRs with 12+ channels are scarce unless you want to pay almost what the Chinese 16-channel processors cost new.

 

[tifune]

Problem is that people who have $6,500 to spend on an AVR/AVP probably have enough to buy some decent balanced amps to go with their new processor. I don't consider the multichannel amplifiers included in AVR's to be sufficient in really any case, regardless of brand or price point.

What do you feel are the shortcomings?

 

[Sancus]

new Marantz AV10 processor

Which looks awesome, but then you get all the Marantz bullshit along with it, like the useful display hidden behind the front door(haha... wtf?) and the fucked up filters and other pointless modifications to the signal chain.

Sigh, Marantz.

 

[Dj7675]

Which looks awesome, but then you get all the Marantz bullshit along with it, like the useful display behind hidden behind the front door(haha... wtf?) and the fucked up filters and other pointless modifications to the signal chain.

Sigh, Marantz.

Will have to wait until Amir tests it to see if that is the case or not. Their 8015 receiver, if I recall correctly, tested better.

 

[peng]

Will have to wait until Amir tests it to see if that is the case or not. Their 8015 receiver, if I recall correctly, tested better.

The 8015 measured almost as good as the x8500H, if XLRs are not needed, those two in preamp mode are still the best prepros at <$5,000 based on measurements that include not just SINAD, but also linearity, 32 tones test, IMD etc., along with the AVM70 (for those who prefer AARC).

 

[MCORN]

Just note that the xlr outs are fully configurable, not for just subs.

Phil Jones, just mentioned it in an interview. Can be configured for the front LR or Center

 

[Everett T]

Phil Jones, just mentioned it in an interview. Can be configured for the front LR or Center

Thanks, had a feeling that was just those but their "fully configurable" was slightly vague.

 

[tjcinnamon]

The biggest win would be Dirac with DEQ. The pumping of the surrounds and bass makes for a much better experience IMO. I went from XT32 for 18 months to Dirac for 2.5 years and back to DEQ with MQX. Despite a very expanded soundstage with Dirac the DEQ has more depth as it relates to better utilizing in the effects speakers (surround bed and LFE).

My (many) Dirac calibrations ended in a better LCR.

 

[haris525]

I am ready to buy it. I was looking at separates from monoprice, but this one in box solution plus zones is perfect for my use case. I did wish they use the AKM DAC chips.

 

[Descartes]

It turns out that Dirac's non-DLBC performance won't matter on this product since DLBC will be available for the new lineup.

Allegedly the A1H will also be getting Dirac's spatial room correction eventually. That would make this the first product to get it(barring announcements from competitors at CES... which I'm sure there will be). That also means the X3800H is probably DLBC w/4 subs at $2400, the cheapest it's ever been.

Sound United is really destroying the competition with this new lineup.

I would like a more official announcement of spatial room correction, but if it's true, I'm seriously considering buying an A1H.

Now let’s see how they measure especially the DACs! Amir could you please let us know when they will be in your lab!

 

[Descartes]

There are several reasons for that. Inflation, currency devaluation, supply chain shortages resulting in scare supply, increasing demand. The British Pound is down 20% since September 2019 (and down 25% since 2018Q1). Combined with inflation reducing consumer purchasing power, that’s a huge toll. Also, a couple auction results do not define the market. But they are still useful. We just have to be careful how we interpret those indicators and how they compare to long-standing industry trends.

Regardless, most people keep their AVRs until they’re fully depreciated. And by fully depreciated I mean scrap value. They’re throwaway components as tech marches onward, unlike most legacy type audio separates like tube amps and certain discrete solid state stereo components that can be serviced and provide decades of reliable enjoyment. Look at what any 10 year old AVR is worth that has HDMI 1.3 connnectors, can only do 5.1 decoding, 1080p video, etc.

Yep my 10 year old Marantz is good for the garage, really looking forward to seeing the new Denon measurements!

 

[Descartes]

I’m just looking at a different timeline than you are. All AVR‘s depreciate rather rapidly and achieve scrap value within 6 to 10 years depending on product and format lifecycles. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a high-end Lexicon or a mass-market Denon or Marantz. Even the super high end AV preamp processor market is not immune. Which is why companies like Datasat and Trinnov try to offer modular upgrades and continuous product support to better justify their very high initial prices. Everyone knows that home theater formats change rapidly and most consumer electronics are disposable because of that.

Unfortunately yep have also an old Classe SSP-800 and it is completely outdated ;(

 

[peng]

Unfortunately yep have also an old Classe SSP-800 and it is completely outdated ;(

Very true, that $10,000 Classe should still be reasonably good as a preamp for music but for movie watching, even a cheap Denon AVR will be more fun to use. They all depreciate so in that sense an one year outdated Denon AVR used as prepro on deep clearance discount could be more cost effective in the long run unless one must use XLRs. Obviously, that's not an issue for those who can afford the cost no object approach.