Denon AVR-A1H

[abdo123]

Thank you. It went out of my mind, possibly due to the headless panther

He really doesn't like the muting below 16 bit thing, otherwise it's pretty solid for the class with a high S/N ratio.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

I can only assume that you have not read any AVR/AVP reviews on ASR.

Yes I have. If you're referring to SINAD then go hunting for unicorns, pixies or something else fictional as SINAD is waaay below what your ears are capable of hearing.
Not a single person has ever heard a difference in amps, AVRs, processors, DACs, CD players or cables in a third party double blind ABX test.
Money should only be spent on speakers and room acoustics.

 

[sarumbear]

He really doesn't like the muting below 16 bit thing, otherwise it's pretty solid for the class with a high S/N ratio.

This was his conclusion:

I am still bothered by lack luster output level and distortion for a $4,000 product. So not changing my recommendation. Buy this product because you want its features, not because you think the $4,000 is bringing you superlative objective audio performance. There are $150 stereo DACs that easily outperform it on that front.

 

[Sancus]

It means that DIRAC calibrates all 4 sub outs independently. How much of an improvement if any it will have we'll have to wait and see.
People get great results with 2 or just 1 sub out using multiple subs with DIRAC.

Says who? Denon/Marantz have not explained what the subwoofer outputs are capable of or whether or not this will be capable of DLBC.

The baseline DIRAC treatment of multiple subwoofers performs poorly compared to Audyssey.

This was his conclusion:

Amir's recommendations for AVRs are all over the place honestly, they're not very useful.

 

[Dj7675]

I respectfully disagree.

What surround processor/amplifier has 15 channels which is cheaper?

And better yet... 15 channels + 4 subs (19 total channels) , and Dirac. I am guessing adding Dirac + DLBC will be $700. It is not cheap of course at $7200 all in retial. But even though expensive, it is a good relative value when evaluating the market. You are in AVM90, Storm MK2/3 (with 4 channel add on), or Trinnov territory now. Cheaper than the AVM90 (no amplification), and way less than Stormaudio or Trinnov. Denon has put themselves in a new category and priced it accordingly in that new market.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Says who? Denon/Marantz have not explained what the subwoofer outputs are capable of or whether or not this will be capable of DLBC.

Says DIRAC.

The baseline DIRAC treatment of multiple subwoofers performs poorly compared to Audyssey.

I would like to see some measurements to prove this.
DIRAC is better than Audyssey.

As for an AVR to use as a processor you don't need recommendations just get the cheapest one that has the features you need.

 

[abdo123]

Says DIRAC.

Where?

 

[Sancus]

It turns out that Dirac's non-DLBC performance won't matter on this product since DLBC will be available for the new lineup.

Allegedly the A1H will also be getting Dirac's spatial room correction eventually. That would make this the first product to get it(barring announcements from competitors at CES... which I'm sure there will be). That also means the X3800H is probably DLBC w/4 subs at $2400, the cheapest it's ever been.

Sound United is really destroying the competition with this new lineup.

I would like a more official announcement of spatial room correction, but if it's true, I'm seriously considering buying an A1H.

 

[abdo123]

Allegedly the A1H will also be getting Dirac's spatial room correction eventually.

This is paradigm shifting.

 

[Chrispy]

We don't yet know what the "independent subwoofer outputs" mean either. This is important, even if DLBC is not included, if you can set individual PEQs for each channel, then you can optimize your bass with MSO without buying a miniDSP and *additionally* you can optimize the crossover for every single channel as well, which is not even possible with the 1 output -> miniDSP -> subs signal chain.



Well, also nobody knows when or if the HTP-1 will actually have stock again. The answer may be never lol. The date on the webpage is just a placeholder afaik.

The four indpendent sub capability is just taking advantage of what Audyssey has offered for quite a while but no avr/pre-pro implemented until now. Just ability to set separate level/delay for the four subs, then Audyssey will eq together as usual.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Where?

Don't know. I was told by Gene DellaSala.

 

[Sancus]

The four indpendent sub capability is just taking advantage of what Audyssey has offered for quite a while but no avr/pre-pro implemented until now. Just ability to set separate level/delay for the four subs, then Audyssey will eq together as usual.

Audyssey has never offered fully independent subwoofer outputs before. You could set level and delay independently, yes, but they were NOT capable in hardware of setting separate EQ for each channel. That's why none of the apps ever offered that ability, only one target curve for all subs.

However, setting separate EQs for each subwoofer is a requirement for DLBC to work. So these new Denons do have that hardware capability. This is a big change, and Audyssey could take advantage of it to improve their own subwoofer optimization as well.

 

[Chrispy]

Audyssey has never offered fully independent subwoofer outputs before. You could set level and delay independently, yes, but they were NOT capable in hardware of setting separate EQ for each channel. That's why none of the apps ever offered that ability, only one target curve for all subs.

However, setting separate EQs for each subwoofer is a requirement for DLBC to work. So these new Denons do have that hardware capability. This is a big change, and Audyssey could take advantage of it to improve their own subwoofer optimization as well.

We sure DLBC is being offered for the Denons now and they're compliant? Thought that was still up in the air somewhat. I was just commenting on what you get with the base avr in any case....and how Audyssey treats subs whether treating 1 or multiple, which hasn't changed. Would be nice if there's more adjustability, even if Denon and/or Audyssey allowed more user control if truly independent.

 

[Sancus]

We sure DLBC is being offered for the Denons now and they're compliant? Thought that was still up in the air somewhat. I was just commenting on what you get with the base avr in any case....and how Audyssey treats subs whether treating 1 or multiple, which hasn't changed. Would be nice if there's more adjustability, even if Denon and/or Audyssey allowed more user control if truly independent.

Yeah, the owner of Value Electronics confirmed it. I'd say it's a reliable piece of info.

I'm still not going to buy one of these until we see the Dirac software updates come out and we see that they do it on time and work out any bugs quickly.

and how Audyssey treats subs whether treating 1 or multiple, which hasn't changed.

Well, it hasn't changed yet... we don't have much info on what the MultEQ-X software is going to do with these new capabilities. It is entirely possible they will add support to allow you to import PEQs for each subwoofer separately.

Then, even without paying for DLBC, you could use Multi-Sub Optimizer with this new lineup and without having to add a miniDSP.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah, the owner of Value Electronics confirmed it. I'd say it's a reliable piece of info.

I'm still not going to buy one of these until we see the Dirac software updates come out and we see that they do it on time and work out any bugs quickly.


Well, it hasn't changed yet... we don't have much info on what the MultEQ-X software is going to do with these new capabilities. It is entirely possible they will add support to allow you to import PEQs for each subwoofer separately.

Then, even without paying for DLBC, you could use Multi-Sub Optimizer with this new lineup and without having to add a miniDSP.

Nice. I somewhat doubt we'll see a lot from Audyssey at this point, but then I didn't particularly expect MultiEQ-X either I'll just hang back and let others work out the kinks on the new Denons so to speak, am in no hurry, but if I did need to get a new avr for some reason, these new Denons are leading candidates....would love to play with the four sub thing especially if I can do Audyssey and/or Dirac....

 

[freedomgli]

It’s not cheap. And it will still depreciate like a rock just like every AVR does. But I have high hopes for Dirac’s “spatial room correction.” And this will likely be one of the soonest and most affordable multichannel AV components to offer it. I hope they delight us and don’t disappoint us. I still remember when both NAD and Dirac teased DLBC over 3 years ago as “coming soon” to several NAD products. They’re still scratching their balls today blaming the pandemic for why they’ve failed to deliver.

 

[Bren Derlin]

Sounds like you should probably quit this whole audio home theater thingy, and just stick with watching movies on TBS using your TV’s speakers.

 

[Dj7675]

Yes I have. If you're referring to SINAD then go hunting for unicorns, pixies or something else fictional as SINAD is waaay below what your ears are capable of hearing.
Not a single person has ever heard a difference in amps, AVRs, processors, DACs, CD players or cables in a third party double blind ABX test.
Money should only be spent on speakers and room acoustics.

This is simply not true.... in particular with components with relatively high noise as part of their SINAD (THD+N). Simply put a component with high noise level in a system high efficiency speakers, put the volume at a decent levell and what do you get? Hiss from the speakers depending on the amount of noise and the sensitivity of the speakers. In dedicated spaces with 11-20 speakers in a quiet rooms this is most certainly audible in content where it is supposed to be silent. In addition many of the most popular HT speakers (JTR/JBL) can be very sensitive. So yes it can be an issue depending on the room, the speakers, and equipment being used. Is there a point where it doesn’t matter? Sure but you can’t say it doesn’t matter for everyone, in all scenarios, all the time.

Just buy the cheapest AVR with the connections and formats you need and use it as a processor and buy a stand alone MiniDSP DIRAC.

Do you mean use the DDRC88? This can be done but is cumbersome, difficult to do. And you would need 2 of them to do 16 channels and still not have DLBC. Not a good solution at all In this day and age IMO. If you didn’t mean that, you will need to explain what you mean.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Use mute button.

Ok.

 

[sarumbear]

It’s not cheap. And it will still depreciate like a rock just like every AVR does.

Why do you say that. Look at an example of a middle range Denon AVR: AVR-X4500H.

It was £1199 when tested. Sold this month at £850 and £775 That is an average of 33% value loss in three years. Is that what you call a rock? Have you checked used car prices?