Denon AVR-A1H High-end AVR Review

[beagleman]

So the last two ASR reviews are for a $6500 AVR with a SINAD of 98 and an $89 DAC with a SINAD of 118. And the AVR outperforms the vast majority of AVRs.

Something is wrong here.

I understand that there are constraints and compromises in AVR architecture that make equaling the performance of a dirt-cheap standalone DAC difficult. That suggests that a fundamental re-think of that architecture is in order. I'm not an engineer, and I don't know what the better way would be. But I have to believe that such a way exists.

I know this isn't the complete answer, but I'd really be interested in a reasonably priced pre-processor that does Dirac (ideally, all the Dirac) and Roon and has decent performance. That way I could buy separate cheap class D power amps for exactly the number of channels I need. Unfortunately the market doesn't seem interested in that use case.

Dirt cheap....for only 2 channels. This AVR is 15 channels.

Again, I think we are really just expecting too much. And I agree, this much "Stuff" crammed into one box, will very possibly limit performance.

 

[SMc]

Just one of those things; it's still not clear to me why a USD 7000 receiver should perform less well that $200 DACs and amplifiers.

Is it too much to hope that design has advanced since 2013? David Rich mentions the "Single Chip Analog AVR LSI" as a performance bottleneck:

AVR - Audio Video Receiver - Build Quality: Part I - HomeTheaterHifi.com

AVR - Audio Video Receiver - Build Quality: Part 1

hometheaterhifi.com

 

[peng]

Adds fuel to the conspiracy theorists of why the 4800 got a "recommend" when the 3800 didn't!

Haha, made in a Japan, $500 more, enough reasons?

 

[famasfilms]

Who here has a A1H besides me?
I had the 8500H prior.

3 Denon remotes; 4308CI from 2008 I still use for multi room audio, 4500H family room 5.1.4, and A1H basement HT 9.3.6

The A1H remote definitely a premium feel, metal top with wrap.
View attachment 427216

Side there is a light button on the A1H
View attachment 427217

View attachment 427218

Like I posted earlier though, I use the iPhone Denon remote app for digging into the AVR menu items quickly. FWIW I use a Harmony Elite in my basement, the hand remote 90% of times but sometimes the iPhone app also.

I have had mine since Aug 24 and never noticed the button until you pointed it out!

 

[squared80]

Been waiting for this review and measurements. Thanks! The A1H is a beast. Not perfect, but may be one of the best AVR's ever made when you look at the power and features.

 

[Frank207be]

@amirm Thanks a lot for this review. I own and use mine in a 7.4.6 setup from March 2023 and couldn't be happier with its features, performance and stability. I also use a separate 1200/AS2 power amp for the stereo channels and I voted great

 

[JDS]

Dirt cheap....for only 2 channels. This AVR is 15 channels.

Again, I think we are really just expecting too much. And I agree, this much "Stuff" crammed into one box, will very possibly limit performance.

Sure. But 8 x $89 = $712. Power amps are cheap (call it a dollar a watt), so there's still a lot of money going out the door for ... what, exactly? And I don't need that many channels, but AVR bundling takes that choice away.

Art the dawn of stereo, expensive hardware was designed for the sophisticated hobbyist. Expensive AV hardware seems intended for either professional installers or noobs -- little in between.

 

[JDS]

Um yeah Dante ethernet pre-out is the future. The notion to buy this hunk of xxx and use pre-amp mode with separates is preposterous not just price but purpose.

Gene from Audioholics promises to review a lower cost processor. 15 years ago we had Onkyo, Integra and Yamaha making mid-fi processors. In addition to the best of the best like Classe SSP-800 Surround Sound Processor. Just ridiculous the state of the industry selling back breaking AVR(s). And in the last decade the lower cost and higher quality multichannel amplifier offerings has just exploded while the processor offering has dwindled. And Emotiva has a new platform of processors being introduced. I welcome all the maniacs on here to buy 8 x toppings or SIML 2 x channel DACs and adjust the volume controls while sitting in your chair using Dante pre-out.

View attachment 427134

I'm trying to understand how this would work. My cable box/disc player/Roon Rock plug into what -- a conventional pre-processor, but with Dante output? And Atmos gets decoded where? Where does the Dante signal go next -- an outboard D/A? Thanks for explaining all this.

 

[welwynnick]

I'm trying to understand how this would work. My cable box/disc player/Roon Rock plug into what -- a conventional pre-processor, but with Dante output? And Atmos gets decoded where? Where does the Dante signal go next -- an outboard D/A? Thanks for explaining all this.

The processor does all the usual processes, but generates a digital output instead of analogue. This goes to an off-board D to A convertor.

 

[mtbdudex]

Just quoting this review:
“Conclusions
The Denon AVR-A1H is competently designed and represents the newer generation of AV products that get close to desktop level performance. We could argue about wanting a bit more from flagship product but there is not anything better with this level of functionality.”

Seems like a lot of side bars happened along 10 pages.

I’m in SE Michigan and have hosted a few gtg’s in my HT over the years , along with going to many more.
If some are interested in the A1H and 9.3.6 in a dedicated HT and local / passing thru I could arrange a session. Both Dirac and Audyssey calibrations also.

My HT journey

Spoiler

HT Cliff notes:

HT 1.0 in basement was "done" 2009-ish as 7.1 full Paradigm with a RH IB 4 x 15" line array, 2 rows with 4 seats each; 18.5 ft long , 14.5 ft wide, 8.75 ft tall, 2300 cubic ft. 130” scope screen filled via Sony VW-60 and panamorph UH 480 a-lens, 4308CI AVR.



HT 1.5 2011-2012 evolved into 11.2 via front heights and front wides with 4520CI, 18"/15" sealed subs in MSO & acoustic panels and deep dive into REW for acoustic treatment placements.

Trivia; what 1 movie was released on Blu-ray that took advantage of discrete front heights / wides then?



HT 2.0 2015 added solid core door 48” wide full sealed and acoustic art covers to the panels. Prior had 6ft opening to adjacent game room with just curtains. Definitely having a sealed room is game changing for acoustics, soundproofing, and LFE.

HT 2.5 2017 - 2018 8500H enabled Atmos 9.2.4 or 7.2.6, pj to JVC RS400, went AT screen 138” with full DIYSG HTM-12's as LCR behind, with HTM-8's as side / rear surrounds and front / rear heights, Volt-10 as top mids, front wides HTM-6 built into side walls.



Early 2022 pj went to JVC NX7.

3 kids tightly aged kept the HT tweaking kinda minimal, we just enjoyed it.

Now my kiddos; oldest daughter graduated college & working on her own, middle son a junior at MTU, youngest son a new USA Marine.

So - now dad hobby time is back



Now as part of HT 3.0 got the Denon A1H Nov-2024, so at 9.3.6, and decided to tackle balancing my RH side IB line array with a LH side dual sealed 18" box from GSG.

I bought two 18" UM18's way back in 2018 and never got around to it.

 

[Putter]

I just voted for Great based on the fact that nobody could identify another AVR or AVC + power amps that did everything that the Denon does. I've wondered why digital amps haven't been used more to reduce the size and hopefully expense of AVR's. JBL has come out with a line of digital AVR's although Amir found their performance left something to be desired.

Another way of putting it into perspective is that $6500 list for the AVR-A1H would be equivalent to $1100 in 1975 dollars and at the current discounted price of around 5 grand would be less than $1000 in 1975 dollars. Remember that the 70's were supposed to be a golden age for high fidelity.

 

[JDS]

The processor does all the usual processes, but generates a digital output instead of analogue. This goes to an off-board D to A convertor.

Got it. At that point, a Mac Mini would (if I could get licenses to run all the right software) should be more than enough to do the AVR's job, right?

(edit) well, a Mac Mini plus an HDMI over Ethernet adapter to get the signal in.

 

[welwynnick]

Got it. At that point, a Mac Mini would (if I could get licenses to run all the right software) should be more than enough to do the AVR's job, right?

Given that you can get a Dante output from a Mac or PC using the Dante Virtual Soundcard (driver), it should be possible, shouldn't it?
Even if the software was expensive, I think it would make more sense than a Trinnov for example.
Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to do real time Atmos decoding and rendering.

 

[JDS]

Given that you can get a Dante output from a Mac or PC using the Dante Virtual Soundcard (driver), it should be possible, shouldn't it?
Even if the software was expensive, I think it would make more sense than a Trinnov for example.
Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to do real time Atmos decoding and rendering.

Yeah, Id happily pay for an Atmos license if I could do that, rather than invest thousands in a receiver that becomes obsolete when the next codec comes along.

 

[zentiques]

Thanks Amir for the review. Purchased one in early 24 for $4500 to upgrade an X3700H with multiple amps to simplify a modest 5.3.4 HT. Flexible configuration allowed me to bi-amp the 5 speaker bed and power 4 heights. Klipsch RF7s, RC7s, RB75s, and RSW15s with Dean G mods. Haven't gone back to Dirac since a nightmare Arcam 390, been happy with the Auddy Multi. The A1H performs flawlessly and at reference volume levels only gets slightly warm, no additional cooling needed. Anyway, thought I'd join the party, and await the bi-amp shredfest (shouldn't mention the Magnetar 900 feeding this beast).

 

[welwynnick]

Yeah, Id happily pay for an Atmos license if I could do that, rather than invest thousands in a receiver that becomes obsolete when the next codec comes along.

Thanks to The Computer Audiophile, These are the only ways I know of to play Atmos movies on a computer:

Prior to the newest version of Music Media Helper, my process for obtaining TrueHD Atmos as WAV files was lengthy, but worth it.

1. Rip the Blu-ray with MakeMKV or download the MKV
2. Create a cue sheet for the album using Music Media Helper's Chapter Editor
3. Extract individual MKA files from the MKV and tag them using Music Media Helper
4. Extract TrueHD files from the MKV and MKA using MKVcleaver
5. Rename the TrueHD files to .mlp
6. Play / decode the album mlp file through the Dolby Reference Player through Blackhole and capture it in Audacity as a 12 channel (7.1.4) file. This is a realtime process that takes as long as the currently playing album.
7. Export the 12 channel file as a w64 file because it's too large for regular WAV
8. Using the cue sheet created earlier, split the w64 file into individual tracks as WAV files using XLD.

That's a streamlined version of the process. Little issues pop up here and there, but again, it was absolutely worth it.

Simplified Process:
Using Music Media Helper version 6.3.14 the new process of extracting TrueHD Atmos WAV files for playback in any application that supports the channel count is as follows.
Note: The Dolby Reference Player is still required, but is only used by MMH.

1. Rip the Blu-ray with MakeMKV or download the MKV
2. Use Music Media Helper to extract and tag WAV files from the MKV.

There are two interesting articles here, too:

Digital Signal Processing - The Ultimate Guide To High End Immersive Audio

Audio: Listen to this article. Welcome to the Digital Signal Processing chapter of the Ultimate Guide To High End Immersive Audio. The main table of contents can be viewed here. Digital signal processing or DSP is a proverbial four letter word in many audiophile circles. DSP means many things to ...

audiophilestyle.com

The Digital Side Of My Immersive Atmos Music System

The digital front end of my Atmos music system can be a little confusing for many audiophiles. I completely understand the confusion. This system is a bit different from the norm, but I believe it produces results that are a bit different from the norm as well. As one can see in my recent objecti...

audiophilestyle.com

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

This unit is designed to allow you to run 300w to a 7.x.
For our more technical members what would this to the would you expect from sinad and measurements in general with that set up?

 

[Brambo67]

That's a very nice chart you did, I downloaded it, thank you very much for that.

There is something that really puzzled me at the time when I saw the low SNR for the X4800H at rated output, but I forgot to alert Amir for perhaps some investigation on that particular measurement.

The obvious question is, how could the AVR-X4800H did so much worse than the X3800H and even the Cinema 70.

With the better layout, shielding, I can understand why the Cinema 40 would do slightly better in DR, but there is no way it could so much better, a full 12 dB better? There is no reason whatsoever for that. As a quick check, the X3800H had the following:

So even the X3800H did 9 dB better, no way!!

In fact, checking further back, the made in Japan AVR-X4800H has the worse/lowest SNR/DNR ever measured on the many recent Denon AVR measurements, including the relatively poorly measured X3500H at full power.

I wonder if @amirm might chime in and offer some possible explanation.

I don't/won't question Amir's measurements, but in this case, I think something might have gone wrong, seriously wrong, resulting in such an outlier results.

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View attachment 427296View attachment 427296

Could the above Amir statement be cause for the (very) low outcome?

 

[Palmspar]

Thanks to The Computer Audiophile, These are the only ways I know of to play Atmos movies on a computer:

There are two interesting articles here, too:

Digital Signal Processing - The Ultimate Guide To High End Immersive Audio

Audio: Listen to this article. Welcome to the Digital Signal Processing chapter of the Ultimate Guide To High End Immersive Audio. The main table of contents can be viewed here. Digital signal processing or DSP is a proverbial four letter word in many audiophile circles. DSP means many things to ...

audiophilestyle.com

The Digital Side Of My Immersive Atmos Music System

The digital front end of my Atmos music system can be a little confusing for many audiophiles. I completely understand the confusion. This system is a bit different from the norm, but I believe it produces results that are a bit different from the norm as well. As one can see in my recent objecti...

audiophilestyle.com

Buy powerdvd ultra it can play atmos 4k and hdr.
Nice program i use it always.

 

[welwynnick]

Buy powerdvd ultra it can play atmos 4k and hdr.
Nice program i use it always.

I believe that PowerDVD can play BluRay Atmos discs, but it doesn't perform the decoding and object rendering that an Atmos receiver can do.
Instead, the Dolby True HD channels are passed through as bitstream over HDMI to a receiver or processor, and the Atmos processing is done there.
What we're trying to achieve here is for the PC or Mac to perform the Atmos processing so the PC can generate 16 channels of LPCM digital audio.
With the right HW & SW, these can be output using USB, AES/EBU, MADI, HDX, AVB, Dante, Ravenna or Thunderbolt, but not HDMI which only carries 8 channels of LPCM.