Right, it is a dilemma, manufacturers, not just Denon, tend to do their best to minimize warrant costs. A 3ch power amp such as buckeyeamp's NC502MP will fix your concerns but it will cost you obviously.
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Denon AVR-A10H 13.4-Channel Receiver announced!
- Thread starter SynthesisCinema
- Start date
Right, it is a dilemma, manufacturers, not just Denon, tend to do their best to minimize warrant costs. A 3ch power amp such as buckeyeamp's NC502MP will fix your concerns but it will cost you obviously.
I think they said that because if you change the impedance to 4 ohms the AVR will limit the maximum output voltage to a much lower values, that means the current will be limited to a much lower value too. That's fine if you don't listen loud enough and don't sit far enough. For example, for you distance of 4 meter, you can still get 90-95 dB maximum for peaks or 70-75 dB average (just ball park estimate) based on the sensitivity measured by the stereophile but you could be getting close to the limits of the AVR even in the default 8 ohms setting so in the 4 ohms setting, you will almost for sure be reaching the limit and performance might suffer, audibly..
If I had those speakers and for my SPL requirements I would definitely leave it in the default setting but I will not suggest you do that because if something happens, that likely would be for other reasons, you might think it is because you did not follow Denon's instructions in the manual. As Gene said ".....I can show you the facts....."
Gene had written on this topic more than once, below is one that has been posted on ASR a few times before:
Setting the A/V Receiver Impedance Selector Switch
This article explores the purpose and function of the impedance switch found on some A/V receivers. Tradeoffs of following manufacturers recommended settings are also discussed. YouTube video inside.www.audioholics.com
Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K AV Receiver Bench Test Results!
We bench tested the Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K 150watt/ch Atmos/DTS:X Receiver to gauge power output and uncover performance issues we discovered. We discuss the proper settings for best power delivery.
To add to the above.
o Using the 4-ohm setting is also a great way to get higher distortion from the power amplifiers if that is an owner's goal.
Lowering the impedance setting to 4-ohm lowers the rail voltage of the AVR's class AB power amplifiers. Lowering the rail voltage of a class AB power amplifier increases the THD plus IM distortion.
I'm already spending a fortune on the Denon A10H. Here in Brazil everything is more expensive and I don't have space for more equipment in the rack. I have a Gryphon integrated amplifier that I can use on two channels, but the idea is to let the AVR amplify on its own. The Integra DRX 8.4 did the job more than well, and I believe the Denon will do the same.
I'll leave it at 8 ohms and let God's will be done.
My goal is not to damage the equipment, but I also don't want to lose power in the equipment. It really is a dilemma!
Just curious, do you have Denon or Marantz AVRs before, if you did, what were your typical volume setting when you listened the loudest you had? If not, what was the highest volume you had listened to and what is the volume scale of the Onkyo, 0 to ? or - X to +Y if relative scale was used.
For D+M, assuming Auto setup had the level trims set to say no more than +5 (usually around 0, +/-3 but depends on your speakers and room), then if you max volume is low, say lower than -20, the receiver would have extremely low risk of overcurrent, let alone thermal overloading. That's based on facts. To help protect against thermal damage/or premature aging, you only need to invest around $20 for an external fan that is near silent from a few inches. For overcurrent, if that happens occasionally during the highest peaks in certain media contents, it wouldn't be an issue. We all know why manufacturers want/warn you to use the 4 ohm setting, that makes very little technical/practical sense. The thing that works against those very nice Contour speaker is that it has relatively low sensitivity (as measured by Stereophile that stated: (".....I estimated the Dynaudio's voltage sensitivity as 84.2dB(B)/2.83V/m, which is slightly lower than the specified 86dB. ....."), which is slightly lower than the specified 86dB. For most people that is not much of an issue, but if listen loud, such as close to reference level, that you need amps that have very high current capability but then those speakers are only rated "IEC 180 W" without stating whether that's short term of long term, even if long term rated, one of those Hypex based 500 W into 4 ohms amps can do the job fine. Sorry to say this, if you like to listen that loud, those speakers are not really suitable anyway.
Regardless, as you mentioned, it is an expensive device, so even if it is well ventilated, I would recommend the use of an external fan for additional protection and that is something totally under your control.
For fan, even the following will help a lot, but if you pay more, you can get one from the same brand that is as quiet and have speed control:
Thank you once again for your attention. You are a very helpful person.
I am already old... I am 58 years old! I had a Denon receiver more than 15 years ago, but I used other speakers. If I am not mistaken, it was a Denon 3808. I have never had a Marantz AVR.
The Integra 8.4 is a beast, it has a lot of power and control with the Dynaudio. In terms of relative volume, the maximum I heard in my living room was -5. It still had a lot of power left over, but it was already VERY loud. I am not used to leaving the volume high for a long time. I change it depending on the music and media.
I believe I will not have a problem with overheating with the Denon. I have never in my life had an AVR disarm due to protection.
Sometimes I listen to it on ALLStereo.
I'll do a test as soon as the A10h arrives.
I intend to leave the impedance at 8 ohms, but I'll be careful with the temperature. If it gets too hot (I think it's difficult) I'll change it to 4 ohms.
I can see the Integra's temperature through the IP and the maximum it reached was 48 degrees. This was with the room's air conditioning turned off.
It usually works at 41 to 45 degrees with the air conditioning on.
Another important detail is that I'm going to lower my rack shelf by 4 cm so that the Denon can breathe better.
I intend to leave the impedance at 8 ohms, but I'll be careful with the temperature. If it gets too hot (I think it's difficult) I'll change it to 4 ohms.
I can see the Integra's temperature through the IP and the maximum it reached was 48 degrees. This was with the room's air conditioning turned off.
It usually works at 41 to 45 degrees with the air conditioning on.
Another important detail is that I'm going to lower my rack shelf by 4 cm so that the Denon can breathe better.
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The beast has arrived...
Impressed with the finish and construction of the A10H.
I already had two updates. I did the Audyssey calibration and so far very excited with the audio. Very clean and detailed sound.
The power is sensational passing a lot of control and speed in the boxes, but with the impedance in 8 ohms it heated up the Denon A LOT. My boxes are 4 ohms.
I changed it to 4 ohms and the temperature dropped drastically. After hours on with medium volume it only gets warm.
I didn't notice power loss in 4 ohms and the ECO mode is turned off automatically. For now I'll leave it this way.
So far I'm enjoying A10H A LOT. Definitive integrated.
Impressed with the finish and construction of the A10H.
I already had two updates. I did the Audyssey calibration and so far very excited with the audio. Very clean and detailed sound.
The power is sensational passing a lot of control and speed in the boxes, but with the impedance in 8 ohms it heated up the Denon A LOT. My boxes are 4 ohms.
I changed it to 4 ohms and the temperature dropped drastically. After hours on with medium volume it only gets warm.
I didn't notice power loss in 4 ohms and the ECO mode is turned off automatically. For now I'll leave it this way.
So far I'm enjoying A10H A LOT. Definitive integrated.
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O fim de semana foi curto com o Denon A10H.
Som cristalino e bem articulado em músicas e filmes, com diálogos limpos, efeitos bem distribuídos e muito impacto no subwoofer.
Até agora estou muito satisfeito com os resultados obtidos com o Audyssey XT-32. Meu UMIK-1 chegará esta semana e poderei testar o Dirac + REW.
Atualmente estou ouvindo ZONA 2 e o som é fantástico. Este receiver é extraordinário!
Som cristalino e bem articulado em músicas e filmes, com diálogos limpos, efeitos bem distribuídos e muito impacto no subwoofer.
Até agora estou muito satisfeito com os resultados obtidos com o Audyssey XT-32. Meu UMIK-1 chegará esta semana e poderei testar o Dirac + REW.
Atualmente estou ouvindo ZONA 2 e o som é fantástico. Este receiver é extraordinário!
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Robert-Hifi
Active Member
I would love to get my hands on the A10H, but will wait until the discount hits 40%.
Here in Brazil the old Denon 8500HA is being sold at practically the same value as the A10H.
In other words, there will be no discount for years. Even because it was released at the end of last year.
You can buy it, you won't get away with it. This receiver is a beast.
The A10H is by far the best receiverI have ever purchased in my entire life.
If anyone has any doubts about the sound quality of the A10H, don't be afraid to buy it. My Dynaudio Contour 20 speakers are not easy to play and it works with great authority and control. My living room is 35 square meters and I don't feel any need for external amplification. If I had known from the beginning that this receiver was so special, I wouldn't have wasted my time buying the previous ones. It was a great experience!
What impresses me is the dynamics in the music during difficult passages. I listen to blues and jazz and there are times when I can't believe it's a receiver. Great AVR !
What impresses me is the dynamics in the music during difficult passages. I listen to blues and jazz and there are times when I can't believe it's a receiver. Great AVR !
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Two days of a lot of dust and a lot of work. Tomorrow we will finish assembling the panel. We applied a lot of rock wool to practically the entire panel. We still need to put the slats on the sides and cut the plaster on the ceiling to install the LEDs. I will have to change the color of the rack to match the new panel. I am thinking of changing the color to gray with the shelves in white.
Anyway, we have a lot of work until the end of the week, but it is worth the effort.
Anyway, we have a lot of work until the end of the week, but it is worth the effort.
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In theory/or fact, most people should have no issues with using a mid range AVR, let alone a flagship AVR such as yours. Unfortunately the internet is flooded with so many posts based on internet hearsay, such that many potential buyers might get get concerned about the so called lack of high current capabilities that AVRs suffer from, that is true for certain applications (yet many such posters would make generalized statements based on such specific cases where even many ext. power amps wouldn't be good enough), but a huge myth for most applications where the users are not crazy enough to sit far away such as >5 meters, use truly 4 ohm nominal and/or sensitivity <86 dB speakers and listen to near reference level and/or listen in all channel stereo mode for long durations. Your came to the right place, ask questions, analyze the responses, then make your choice and the results are therefore sort of expected.
In extreme cases, the likes of the A10H, RZ70, C30, A8A etc., can drive even some of the so called difficult to drive 4 ohms/with high phase angles speakers easily if the distance is <4m, speaker sensitivity >87 dB, listening to 95 dB max/peak, including speakers that may dip down to 2 ohms in a few frequency points in the bass band. Also in extreme cases, one may need multiple monoblock amps such as the Mc 2kW, if one use speakers that have dips to 2 ohms or below at multiple points, high phase angles >45 degrees also at multiple frequency points in the bass band, and needs SPL at or near reference level from >5m. Point is, can't, shouldn't generalize in terms the need of receivers vs ext. power amps for transparent, non clipping performance. The fact is, some receivers may be more "powerful" than many "external" power amps anyway, especially for real world use only.
