Denon A1 Player Vs Denon DCD-3000NE

[MARCD5123]

Question please out of curiosity for me for now ...What are your thoughts on this Denon Reference CD/SACD Player DCD-3000NE Player.

Now I am fully aware it does not have any streaming or USB input facilities or XLR inputs,so for me this does not pose a problem whatsoever. I do however understand that obviously for some folks it could have been a deal breaker...each to their own on that front so Denon decided to keep this particular model as a "Purist" option and I for one respect that ..

So for me "if" I choose and decided to grab this unit at some point as I still have a large collection of Redbook and SACD Collection as well as Multichannel Collection so this would suit me perfectly fine ,I've got a Denon 3313UD Player to handle all my Multi-channel Audio.

Anyhow this "could" the first time I own a unit that has an "ESS" DAC ...all my previous players have largely been ... Burr-Brown and a few by Arcam using their Wolfson DACs...I've always preferred to my ears Burr-Brown.

My current Denon A1 Player it uses R2R Burr-Brown X4 1704 DACs per channel in Dual-Mono differential mode in Stereo !!! One of the very finest Burr-Brown DAC's ever made so how will the DCD-3000NE stack up !... Despite the A1 age it will still even in 2025 give vast majority of players a run for their money in my honest opinion .mmm mmm

I'm seriously tempted indeed by the DCD-3000NE! But the sheer ultra clean richness in texture and velvety warmth in sound given by the A1 will take some beating it can be truly sublime to my ears....I'll need some time on this that's for sure ..Just because something is much newer does not necessarily mean it's better.

I will be using this player via it's external analogue outs using my Atlas Electra All Cu interconnect cable to my newly acquired Denon AVC-A1HD MK3 Edition (2012)

I managed to purchase a more or less brand new A1 from it's original owner last year he purchased it sat in his rack and never got used so brand new essentially never selling it . I believe the only player that would match it would have been the Original Denon DCD3500 series.

Yes this is largely subjective but I still would love to here from users that own this unit or had this unit good or bad experiences please .

 

[NTTY]

The Denon DVD-A1 was a very good CD player, with an impressive built quality. And the co-linear conversion from Denon/BurrBrown was indeed something (first implemented in the Denon DCD-3560).

But an ESS DAC will have no issue measuring better, as seen in the low value DCD-900NE.
It won’t make a difference when listening to them, besides the biais related to pleasure you might get about thinking this DAC or that one is at work.

If you need/want to play SACD, that’s a different requirement, and many of these get different masters sometimes even a redone mixing, so they indeed sound different (that’s intentional). But the format itself won’t be what makes the main difference. A good mix/master done in respect of the format will sound the same from a CD or SACD.

I’d be you, I’d keep enjoying the A1 and spending money searching and financing good CD masters. But sometimes we want a change not because of an improvement, but just for the pleasure of a new toy.

PS: to me, the 3000NE offers too few features for the asking price.

 

[MARCD5123]

The Denon DVD-A1 was a very good CD player, with an impressive built quality. And the co-linear conversion from Denon/BurrBrown was indeed something (first implemented in the Denon DCD-3560).

But an ESS DAC will have no issue measuring better, as seen in the low value DCD-900NE.
It won’t make a difference when listening to them, besides the biais related to pleasure you might get about thinking this DAC or that one is at work.

If you need/want to play SACD, that’s a different requirement, and many of these get different masters sometimes even a redone mixing, so they indeed sound different (that’s intentional). But the format itself won’t be what makes the main difference. A good mix/master done in respect of the format will sound the same from a CD or SACD.

I’d be you, I’d keep enjoying the A1 and spending money on search of good CD masters. But sometimes we want a change not because of an improvement, but just for the pleasure of a new toy.

PS: to me, the 3000NE offers too few features for the asking price.

Hi Thanks for the reply/response...I've had several other players in the past 25 years a few dedicated and a few Universal like Denon 3910 ..then 3930 and to be honest they were dam good ...but in all honesty the A1 wipes the floor with them all and that's including my previous Marantz SA-15S1 which I still own but don't use anymore .

I've been on the fence about this for sometime and to me anyway the A1 would have to take some beating the way Denon has implemented those BB 1704 DACs along with the incredible build quality and craftmanship it would need something quite special to beat it ...

To test this particular theory to my ears ...is i recently upgraded my mains cable for both my amp and A1 they were older Merlin Scorpion cables and several hours of use on the amp I could already start to here the differences...I then got in contact with Merlin UK once more and did another deal with them and grabbed another Merlin scorpion cable for the A1 just to see how far I could push the A1 and would it actively/proactively make a real sonic difference to my ears .

I've only had the cable one day and so far once more dammmm !!! I did not think to my ears it really would make an significant enough of a difference..I wanted to see and test before jumping the gun and spend more money and upgrade the player to the 3000NE let's do this first one step at a time ..

The A1 is definitely a very musical sounding Redbook player hands down theirs nothing it cant handle in my view and opinion.

I've got to spend far more time with the A1 and the new cable to objectively see now if this can answer my own question "is it worth spending more money or upgrade to a new player" ...

This perhaps"could" put my mind at rest ..I truly love my A1 player and I was very fortunate indeed to purchase one "opened box" new ...I will never sell it let's put it that way.

I cant and I won't rule out an upgrade like you said "the pleasure of having a new toy" definitely!!! We all love that Im not going to be a hypocrite in that department.

For now I'm going to enjoy the moment...those BB 1704 DACs sound ridiculously brilliant it's just super velvety smooth ultra clean yet such a lot of richness and texture and some serious low ends ...it simply "The Denon" sound how we all know it the 3000NE is a different class and generation and I'm worried I'm won't get the same experience. Obviously theirs only one way to find out have a demo or get one on sale or return I suppose.

 

[Svend P]

None of what you write has any connection to science or the equipment you have listened to. Please read this first:

'Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...'

Nov 17, 2020

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You bought the cables and the little bridge thingies for them to sit upon and the benefits were magical. You bought the $1000 IEMs that only truly sang after 250 hours of burn-in. Not 200 hours...or 225 hours, but 250 hours! It must be that for the magic to appear! You converted...

• Sgt. Ear Ache
• Replies: 3,945
• Forum: General Audio Discussions

• 

 

[Veselchak U]

I had an A1, which sounded too soft and blurry to me. I sold it, probably not a good idea

 

[Svend P]

I had an A1, which sounded too soft and blurry to me. I sold it, probably not a good idea

Especially since you were imagining the sound differences:

'How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?'

Oct 4, 2019

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE, IMAGING, and MIDRANGE of a DAC? I actually don't know what to say to people to not be rude. If you try explaining that a DAC isn't something that actually changes the sound, they accuse you of having "a hard-on for measurements", as if it were the measurements themselves that tell you that DACs don't...

• Willhelm_Scream
• Replies: 10,921
• Forum: DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface

• 

 

[Veselchak U]

By the way, there was a Hitachi logo on the board.

 

[Veselchak U]

Especially since you were imagining the sound differences:

'How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?'

Oct 4, 2019

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE, IMAGING, and MIDRANGE of a DAC? I actually don't know what to say to people to not be rude. If you try explaining that a DAC isn't something that actually changes the sound, they accuse you of having "a hard-on for measurements", as if it were the measurements themselves that tell you that DACs don't...

• Willhelm_Scream
• Replies: 10,921
• Forum: DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface

• 

I'm not ready to prove anything to you, but I have experience and other listeners. On the other hand, if you think the difference is too small to find, I assure you that it is sometimes impossible to ignore it.

 

[Svend P]

I'm not ready to prove anything to you, but I have experience and other listeners. On the other hand, if you think the difference is too small to find, I assure you that it is sometimes impossible to ignore it.

And yet if you test without looking, those differences disappear. The question you have to ask yourself is: if they all measure identical (better than human hearing), how can they sound differently?

H

'Actual Double Blind Studies'

Oct 30, 2023

I just read yet another person trying to defend a position related to audio by referencing "double blind studies" generally. The idea always sounds great as a listening test. Truly see if people are able to notice differences between things. If we use a fairly controlled method, this information should grow in precision over time. The more blind tests that are done, the closer the results of those tests should point towards some actual underlying truth. This would be fantastic for all sorts of reasons. The problem is, this sort of testing does require enough repetition to make it valuable...

• hawkjeff
• abx testing blind testing double blind testing
• Replies: 88
• Forum: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion

 

[NTTY]

I'm not ready to prove anything to you, but I have experience and other listeners. On the other hand, if you think the difference is too small to find, I assure you that it is sometimes impossible to ignore it.

On the other hand, there’s nothing to prove. The biggest difference comes from the output level of the CD/SACD players, deviating from the "standard" 2Vrms, ranging from 1.5Vrms to 2.5Vrms (or more!), as I measured.
No doubt that when comparing two of these extremes, the one with the highest output will sound MUCH better, only because nobody adjusted the gain on the peamp (louder = more details, more everything in fact, and it’s better, of course).

There are some broken devices, that said, or defective, and sometimes that can be heard. The defects must be massive though.

Listening experience from other people isn’t worth much, unless a painful and well documented blind testing was conducted, which nearly nobody does, because it’s too demanding.

 

[NTTY]

Hi Thanks for the reply/response...I've had several other players in the past 25 years a few dedicated and a few Universal like Denon 3910 ..then 3930 and to be honest they were dam good ...but in all honesty the A1 wipes the floor with them all and that's including my previous Marantz SA-15S1 which I still own but don't use anymore .

I've been on the fence about this for sometime and to me anyway the A1 would have to take some beating the way Denon has implemented those BB 1704 DACs along with the incredible build quality and craftmanship it would need something quite special to beat it ...

To test this particular theory to my ears ...is i recently upgraded my mains cable for both my amp and A1 they were older Merlin Scorpion cables and several hours of use on the amp I could already start to here the differences...I then got in contact with Merlin UK once more and did another deal with them and grabbed another Merlin scorpion cable for the A1 just to see how far I could push the A1 and would it actively/proactively make a real sonic difference to my ears .

I've only had the cable one day and so far once more dammmm !!! I did not think to my ears it really would make an significant enough of a difference..I wanted to see and test before jumping the gun and spend more money and upgrade the player to the 3000NE let's do this first one step at a time ..

The A1 is definitely a very musical sounding Redbook player hands down theirs nothing it cant handle in my view and opinion.

I've got to spend far more time with the A1 and the new cable to objectively see now if this can answer my own question "is it worth spending more money or upgrade to a new player" ...

This perhaps"could" put my mind at rest ..I truly love my A1 player and I was very fortunate indeed to purchase one "opened box" new ...I will never sell it let's put it that way.

I cant and I won't rule out an upgrade like you said "the pleasure of having a new toy" definitely!!! We all love that Im not going to be a hypocrite in that department.

For now I'm going to enjoy the moment...those BB 1704 DACs sound ridiculously brilliant it's just super velvety smooth ultra clean yet such a lot of richness and texture and some serious low ends ...it simply "The Denon" sound how we all know it the 3000NE is a different class and generation and I'm worried I'm won't get the same experience. Obviously theirs only one way to find out have a demo or get one on sale or return I suppose.

Ok, sorry that I misunderstood your request from the beginning.
The fact is the A1 is far from offering the required resolution to identify a difference between cables.
Anyway, even the best analyzer will identify nothing, provided the cables are adapted to the function and correctly manufactured. This requires an investment of less than $10 for the end-user.
So if you’re into cables and believe they make such a difference, you’re indeed good to go for the 3000NE. It will please you, if you want it to.

 

[Scytales]

Listening experience from other people isn’t worth much, unless a painful and well documented blind testing was conducted, which nearly nobody does, because it’s too demanding.

Note that before going to the double blind test step, hi-fi enthusiasts could at least make the effort to do sighted comparisons at matched levels.

This type of comparison can be revealing or eye-opening by itself.

Some good analogue pre-amplifiers offer the possibility to trim levels between their inputs in order to match them, often with sufficient accuracy to be able to make proper comparison, where differences in volume level between sources are sufficiently suppressed.

 

[NTTY]

But to match levels, you need a fine volume control and some measurement tool, as you can’t really trust your ears for that either.