• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Denon 3900h - setup issues - is this just borked?

Hello, joined the forum just to comment on this thread. Seems like everything has been figured out and confirmed by multiple sources, but I'll just add another data point. I have a 65 ft active HDMI cable over fiber that I thought was the issue here because of the signal dropping in and out, but it does seem like the handshake issues you all have described. Shield -> Denon 3900 -> LG CX. The only thing that has worked for me is restarting everything and praying. I tried turning the Shield to output only 4k 23hz with HDR and it was still suffering from periodic no signal issues.

An interesting thing to note from my troubleshooting is once it decides it has no signal, even switching the Denon to Setup mode (I.e. the Denon is in a full screen setup, rather than an options Overlay) it still won't work. I'll dig around the Denon settings tonight and try changing *its* output settings as an earlier post mentioned, but I have not found a reliable way to watch yet. Very disappointed in this 3900 so far.
 
Hello, joined the forum just to comment on this thread. Seems like everything has been figured out and confirmed by multiple sources, but I'll just add another data point. I have a 65 ft active HDMI cable over fiber that I thought was the issue here because of the signal dropping in and out, but it does seem like the handshake issues you all have described. Shield -> Denon 3900 -> LG CX. The only thing that has worked for me is restarting everything and praying. I tried turning the Shield to output only 4k 23hz with HDR and it was still suffering from periodic no signal issues.

An interesting thing to note from my troubleshooting is once it decides it has no signal, even switching the Denon to Setup mode (I.e. the Denon is in a full screen setup, rather than an options Overlay) it still won't work. I'll dig around the Denon settings tonight and try changing *its* output settings as an earlier post mentioned, but I have not found a reliable way to watch yet. Very disappointed in this 3900 so far.
Just curious about your 65 ft active hdmi cable....what is it particularly and what are you doing for voltage requirements support?
 
Well the Denon has a 5 volt out that has worked intermittently in the same manner. I've also troubleshot by using the USB on the Shield to power it. I should note it works totally fine when going from the Shield direct to TV, as long as I've turned everything off and it renegotiates the HDMI connection.

Cable is this one, it's always worked for me for what I ask of it, but I haven't done any hardcore testing of it to see if it's truly 8k60: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081SGT9YZ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Been happy enough with it I actually just ordered the CL2 version of it. I realized the version I had and pulled through the walls would be an insurance problem if I ever had a fire, so I'm replacing it. Luckily the walls are all still open.
 
I wonder if the Denon's HDMI 2.1 bandwidth of 40 vs. 48 GBit per spec somehow would suggest a change at the HDMI 2.0 standard too (18 GBit which the Shield uses). But it's only a guess, I can't find anything about it.

If HDMI 2.1 cables are used it should not be about them for this case. This should even work with the old 4k cables from the Shield era as long as the Denon isn't set to 8k/enhanced.
 
I wonder if the Denon's HDMI 2.1 bandwidth of 40 vs. 48 GBit per spec somehow would suggest a change at the HDMI 2.0 standard too (18 GBit which the Shield uses). But it's only a guess, I can't find anything about it.

If HDMI 2.1 cables are used it should not be about them for this case. This should even work with the old 4k cables from the Shield era as long as the Denon isn't set to 8k/enhanced.
Which avr/avp do 48 anyway, I am not aware of any?
 
Not saying it will not get solved, but the Shield is pretty well known to play loosely with the HDMI standard and HDR/DV outputs. I had lots of issues a few years back with the Shield and my projector I had then with HDR. That turned out to be a Shield issue, that the Shield never solved.

I am sure it will get resolved, because it works with older Denon devices and it is brand spanking new. Just pretty clear they don't have a Shield they tested in these cases and need to do that to change FW stuff to make up for the Shield deviance on the standards.
 
Which avr/avp do 48 anyway, I am not aware of any?
Isn’t the Hyperion APR-16 currently the only one supporting 48Gbps? Sorry, answered a question with a question, didn’t I? Sorry, again.
 
Update: tested with a new 50 ft cable (not active this time) and same issues. I also can't get it to work consistently. Changing settings in Shield to a lower resolution did not help. If anyone got it consistently working, please let me know what settings you used on the Denon.

Thinking about returning it. Very disappointed.
 
Update: tested with a new 50 ft cable (not active this time) and same issues. I also can't get it to work consistently. Changing settings in Shield to a lower resolution did not help. If anyone got it consistently working, please let me know what settings you used on the Denon.

Thinking about returning it. Very disappointed.
Did you recently buy the Shield? As far as I am aware, the shield isn't sold/supported anymore, so not returnable.

It all works perfectly fine with my Vero V and 4K 60Hz/HDR/DV here on the Denon X3900H, so that could be a good option. Though it doesn't do Netflix/Disney apps (but best to use your TV for that normally anyways).
 
I meant return the Denon. I just bought it last week. There are competitors there. The Shield Pro (extremely unfortunately) doesn't have a ton of competitors that can play all formats from a large Plex library as well as Disney Plus. If someone has suggestions though, I'm all ears. I don't use apps on my TV because I don't like them spying on me. I'm DEFINITELY not going to give them internet access so they can screen capture my viewing even in "local" apps like Plex. The only deal with the devil I've made like that is with Google, so I'll keep all my data harvesting on the shield until someone shows me a way to get 4k Dolby Vision 7.1 playback from Disney plus on a Linux HTPC.

But again, all ears if someone has a set top box suggestion.
 
I meant return the Denon. I just bought it last week. There are competitors there. The Shield Pro (extremely unfortunately) doesn't have a ton of competitors that can play all formats from a large Plex library as well as Disney Plus. If someone has suggestions though, I'm all ears. I don't use apps on my TV because I don't like them spying on me. I'm DEFINITELY not going to give them internet access so they can screen capture my viewing even in "local" apps like Plex. The only deal with the devil I've made like that is with Google, so I'll keep all my data harvesting on the shield until someone shows me a way to get 4k Dolby Vision 7.1 playback from Disney plus on a Linux HTPC.

But again, all ears if someone has a set top box suggestion.
You do know that the Shield does the same things TVs do? It is one cesspool of calling home on there too, it is powered by Android TV.

The only thing the Vero V doesn't do, is play Disney Plus, but the Shield only does 1080p without HDR on Disney Plus, because of missing certificates and specific hardware support for DRM. The only way to get 4K commercial streaming, is either the TV apps, a Google TV streamer or an Apple TV streamer (which doesn't do bitstream audio and therefore no Atmos and other audio processing on AVRs).
To add to that, the Shield doesn't do DV FEL, which is what really counts, the Vero and Ugoos AM6B+ (with going through hoops to install the right firmware which is badly supported, but it works now).
Though, I am pretty sure they (Denon) will get the Shield working fine with the X3900H in a FW update, as it is still a device that people use (though most are leaving the platform due to bad DV support, no 4K streaming app support and issues with HDMI protocols).
 
Last edited:
Update: tested with a new 50 ft cable (not active this time) and same issues. I also can't get it to work consistently. Changing settings in Shield to a lower resolution did not help. If anyone got it consistently working, please let me know what settings you used on the Denon.

Thinking about returning it. Very disappointed.
AFAIK, the Shield doesn't really play nice w/most AVRs!
 
The Nvidia Shield TV Pro can still be purchaed new. No issues with mine connected to my Onkyo or Yamaha AVR that I occasionally switch out.

I like playing with different streamers and also have an Apple TV 4K 1st Gen, Roku Ultra X4800, Amazon Fire Cube 3rd Gen and Xiaomi TV Box S 3rd Gen. The Xiaomi is the only one that supports DTS:X Profile 2 for Disney+ IMAX Enhanced titles.

Apple TV 4K supports Dolby Atmos using Dolby MAT2.0 as does the Xiaomi but the Xiaomi also has a Passthrough setting for bitstream. I’ve not used Plex as of yet on the Xiaomi.

My Nvidia Shield TV Pro has no issues with 4K Dolby Vision/Dolby Atmos from Disney+. The Shield and Xiaomi support LLDV(Player Led Dolby Vision) as well.
 
Last edited:
The Nvidia Shield TV Pro can still be purchaed new. No issues with mine connected to my Onkyo or Yamaha AVR that I occasionally switch out.

I like playing with different streamers and also have an Apple TV 4K 1st Gen, Roku Ultra X4800, Amazon Fire Cube 3rd Gen and Xiaomi TV Box S 3rd Gen. The Xiaomi is the only one that supports DTS:X Profile 2 for Disney+ IMAX Enhanced titles.

Apple TV 4K supports Dolby Atmos using Dolby MAT2.0 as does the Xiaomi but the Xiaomi also has a Passthrough setting for bitstream. I’ve not used Plex as of yet on the Xiaomi.

My Nvidia Shield TV Pro has no issues with 4K Dolby Vision/Dolby Atmos from Disney+. The Shield and Xiaomi support LLDV(Player Led Dolby Vision) as well.
I seem to haven't done enough research on the 4K streaming claim, that issue has come and gone, but is gone for now. Sorry about the bad info there.

LLDV doesn't say anything about FEL/MEL. DV really comes alive (if you have a TV that actually is able to really deliver DV) when it can deliver FEL.
The Shield definitely doesn't support FEL, not in local files, nor streaming and it never will/never has (since support has stopped).
 
The Xiaomi is claimed to support DV Profile 7 but haven’t looked into it myself. There are features, and that ill conceived remote controller, that annoy me. There is not a single streamer to rule them all as they all have their issues and limitations.

Some AVRs do not allow GUI overlay when receiving TV Led DV signals. The option to switch to Player Led DV in some streamers will benefit those with such AVRs.
 
The Xiaomi is claimed to support DV Profile 7 but haven’t looked into it myself. There are features, and that ill conceived remote controller, that annoy me. There is not a single streamer to rule them all as they all have their issues and limitations.

Some AVRs do not allow GUI overlay when receiving TV Led DV signals. The option to switch to Player Led DV in some streamers will benefit those with such AVRs.
Player Led DV is pretty much useless, then you get almost the same result as HDR10(+). The X3900H doesn't have any issues with GUI over TV Led DV at all fortunately.

There indeed isn't a single streamer to rule them all, but if you have a TV that has eARC and has the streamer apps through Android TV, you always know they give you what they can in quality and will in the future. On media players, like Shield/Ugoos/Xiaomi/AppleTV, it is an unknown in the future.

I only use my media player for local files and then the Vero V is unbeatable. Always very well supported by the dev himself. Have had a Vero 4K before this one and always had stellar support from the dev for eight years now myself, but has been a lot longer. No going through hoops and whatnot to get the newer features and functions. But streaming apps are pretty badly supported at the moment (which again, I think are better used on the TV itself if you use streaming services).
 
UPDATE - Solved the PS5 / Denon HDMI Blackout & Handshake Issues (Hardware Voltage Flaw)

Hey everyone, I wanted to provide a final update on the HDMI blackout and handshake dropouts I've been experiencing with my setup. After weeks of testing, we finally tracked down the root cause—and it was a physical electrical flaw, not a software or cable bandwidth issue.

The Misdirection​

For the longest time, I was troubleshooting the completely wrong section of my chain. I was laser-focused on the PS5-to-Denon connection because my Xbox Series X, which actually pushes a higher 40Gbps bandwidth, was passing through the receiver to the TV flawlessly. Because the XSX worked perfectly, I falsely assumed the Denon-to-TV leg of the chain was rock solid.

The Troubleshooting Rabbit Hole​

To figure out why the PS5 was dropping, I ended up diving into the Samsung TV's Service Menu to monitor the raw HDMI receiver data. I found that I could temporarily fix the black screens by drastically widening the HdmiRx PLL_BW (Phase-Locked Loop Bandwidth) and increasing the HOT PLUG DURATION buffer from 800ms to 1800ms.

This proved something critical: the TV was constantly losing the Hot Plug Detect (HPD) signal, and it was heavily tied to thermal drift. When the Denon was cold, the signal jitter was terrible. When it warmed up, it stabilized. However, relying on Samsung's volatile service menu settings wasn't a sustainable fix.

The Real Root Cause: Pin 18 Voltage Sag​

The true culprit was Pin 18 (the 5V power line) on the Denon’s HDMI output port.

It turns out the Denon’s internal power delivery for its HDMI board was experiencing minor voltage sag (likely dropping slightly below 5V). Because the TV uses that 5V line to return the Hot Plug Detect signal on Pin 19, every time the Denon's voltage dipped, the TV thought the cable was physically yanked out of the wall. This caused the random 1-to-2 second black screens.

This fluctuating voltage was also polluting the HDMI ground reference, which completely explains the random CEC crashes and eARC handshake failures I was dealing with on the side.

The Solution​

Instead of dealing with warranty claims or buying an expensive EDID spoofer (which often breaks VRR anyway), the silver bullet was a simple 5V HDMI Power Inserter (like the RUIPRO).

I plugged the inserter directly into the Denon’s HDMI output.

  • It severs the Denon's weak internal 5V line.
  • It injects a perfectly clean, unwavering 5V from an external USB charger.
  • It leaves the high-speed FRL video data pins completely untouched.
Since injecting stable external power, the Hot Plug Detect line never drops. The blackouts are 100% gone, CEC is snappy, eARC is flawless, and my TV is safely back to its factory default settings.

If anyone else is pulling their hair out over random black screens with their PS5 and an AVR—especially if another console works fine on the same display—stop looking at the data bandwidth and start looking at your 5V power rail!
 
Unfortunately, Player Led Dolby Vision is the only option for some with certain AVRs wanting the use of their GUI over a DV signal or those streaming with an XBOX Series X/S. I cannot say the image looks different to me from Player Led to TV Led but there is quite a difference compared to HDR10.

There certainly is no TV to rule them all. Many will find that at least some of their subscribed services are not fully supported on their TV concerning optimal audio and video presentation and purchase an additional streamer for full functionality of their favorite services.

While there is also no AVR to rule them all, the Denon X3900H is the best featured at its price point even with the addition of a full DIRAC license. There is much going back and forth about it over in the Onkyo TX-RZ30 Review thread concerning using either of them with external amps.

The RZ30 will work perfectly well for some with 5.1.4 system configurations. The X3900H offers far more features and functions for those wanting to use external power from a basic 5.1 speaker configuration all the way up to 7.1.4 or 5.1.6 configurations.

It is no small thing to combine a display, source devices, services, AVP/AVR and speakers into a system that meets one’s needs. There are many, many combinations of devices from which to choose these days.
 
Unfortunately, Player Led Dolby Vision is the only option for some with certain AVRs wanting the use of their GUI over a DV signal or those streaming with an XBOX Series X/S. I cannot say the image looks different to me from Player Led to TV Led but there is quite a difference compared to HDR10.

There certainly is no TV to rule them all. Many will find that at least some of their subscribed services are not fully supported on their TV concerning optimal audio and video presentation and purchase an additional streamer for full functionality of their favorite services.

While there is also no AVR to rule them all, the Denon X3900H is the best featured at its price point even with the addition of a full DIRAC license. There is much going back and forth about it over in the Onkyo TX-RZ30 Review thread concerning using either of them with external amps.

The RZ30 will work perfectly well for some with 5.1.4 system configurations. The X3900H offers far more features and functions for those wanting to use external power from a basic 5.1 speaker configuration all the way up to 7.1.4 or 5.1.6 configurations.

It is no small thing to combine a display, source devices, services, AVP/AVR and speakers into a system that meets one’s needs. There are many, many combinations of devices from which to choose these days.
A good TV (I have a Bravia 9) shows a huge difference between Player or TV led. If you don't see a big difference, the TV isn't 100% suitable for DV and or the stream/source isn't real DV but pseudo DV. Most of the TVs out there that are DV, aren't really fully DV specced unfortunately.

If you have a good source and a capable TV, the difference is really noticeable between Player Led or TV Led.
 
Back
Top Bottom