Denon 3700H, 4700H, 6700H

[sharkhunter]

I got SVS ultra towers and speakers and twin sub. Picked up denon 3700h and monolith 7x200v amp from recent sale. I really wanted to get a Anthem AVM 70, so this denon was a temp receiver until i get my hands on an AVM 60.

I spend few days without amp - driving with denon and few days with amp - denon on pre-amp mode. I have been using them at 70db and i couldnt really tell difference between which and which. I will continue doing this A-B test for some more days. a Placebo effect kicks in when denon receiver is being used to power the receivers, that may be this explosion would have sounded better with an amp, but if felt the same.

Is this how it is.?

 

[peng]

I got SVS ultra towers and speakers and twin sub. Picked up denon 3700h and monolith 7x200v amp from recent sale. I really wanted to get a Anthem AVM 70, so this denon was a temp receiver until i get my hands on an AVM 60.

I spend few days without amp - driving with denon and few days with amp - denon on pre-amp mode. I have been using them at 70db and i couldnt really tell difference between which and which. I will continue doing this A-B test for some more days. a Placebo effect kicks in when denon receiver is being used to power the receivers, that may be this explosion would have sounded better with an amp, but if felt the same.

Is this how it is.?

May be you are not Placebo prone. I don't know what you meant by using them at 70 dB. The "fact" is, if your actual power need is well below the rated output even for the max peak spl from you mlp then it is highly likely that even the internal amps of the X3700H can do it at distortion levels below the threshold of audibility. What was the volume set to?

 

[sharkhunter]

May be you are not Placebo prone. I don't know what you meant by using them at 70 dB. The "fact" is, if your actual power need is well below the rated output even for the max peak spl from you mlp then it is highly likely that even the internal amps of the X3700H can do it at distortion levels below the threshold of audibility. What was the volume set to?

The volume bar points to 70 dB. Is that what you asked for? Sorry. If I didn't get the Q right.

 

[peng]

The volume bar points to 70 dB. Is that what you asked for? Sorry. If I didn't get the Q right.

Volume bar? Just to be clear, you have the X3700H, done the auto setup/calibration, and the volume is set to 70 dB on the display right? If that's the case, and assuming Audyssey set the level trim settings to 0 dB (or within +/-2), then it is a good indications that you are listening to levels well below the reference level. It is still much louder (5 to 10 dB) than what I listen to, but the AVR should still be well within its power output limit assuming your speakers are 8 Ohms nominal, or even 4 Ohms nominal. So it is not surprising that you are hearing a difference with or without the external amp. If you raise the volume to near 80, then you may find it easier to hear distortions when not using the Monolith amp.

 

[sharkhunter]

Volume bar? Just to be clear, you have the X3700H, done the auto setup/calibration, and the volume is set to 70 dB on the display right? If that's the case, and assuming Audyssey set the level trim settings to 0 dB (or within +/-2), then it is a good indications that you are listening to levels well below the reference level. It is still much louder (5 to 10 dB) than what I listen to, but the AVR should still be well within its power output limit assuming your speakers are 8 Ohms nominal, or even 4 Ohms nominal. So it is not surprising that you are hearing a difference with or without the external amp. If you raise the volume to near 80, then you may find it easier to hear distortions when not using the Monolith amp.

Audessey set the level trim settings to what you have referred to above. I bumped up center channel by 4 db.
One another thing, i want to ask is while calibrating with dual sub, denon asked me to set the volume on sub to 50% and after calibration the sub felt non-existent.

Looking at the audessey calibration, the subs were dialed down to the minimum..way below to extreme left. I had to dial it up to 0 level. Should i have to rerun the audessey calibration again? Got SVS PB2000 Pro dual subs.

 

[peng]

Audessey set the level trim settings to what you have referred to above. I bumped up center channel by 4 db.
One another thing, i want to ask is while calibrating with dual sub, denon asked me to set the volume on sub to 50% and after calibration the sub felt non-existent.

Looking at the audessey calibration, the subs were dialed down to the minimum..way below to extreme left. I had to dial it up to 0 level. Should i have to rerun the audessey calibration again? Got SVS PB2000 Pro dual subs.

When you run Audyssey, you should follow the onscreen instructions to the letter, except the subwoofer level sensing part. You can follow instructions too but it is better to ignore its warning about "too loud" and want you to turn down the volume knob on the subs. In my experience, for SVS subs such as the PB2000, you should try setting the volume to about the 9 O'clock position to begin with and slightly higher if necessary in order to see the onscreen meter just a little higher than the green zone and into the red zone.

If you do that, you will have a good chance for Audyssey to set the level trim for the subs to somewhere around -5 to -10 and then would be good, because then you will have a lot of headroom for the sub without being driven into clipping during the high peaks of some movies. Say if Audyssey did set the level trims to -8, you can then manually increase the level trim by 3 dB to -5 to suit your taste and you will still have 5 dB left to move before it gets push to the +ve territory and again, you will have less chance for the sub preout to clip.

Reference posts:
Denon Audyssey subwoofer setup help! : hometheater (reddit.com)
How to set subwoofer volume for Audyssey | AVS Forum

 

[amper42]

The volume bar points to 70 dB. Is that what you asked for? Sorry. If I didn't get the Q right.

Just to be clear, when the Denon 3700 shows 70 as the volume on the screen that's way above 70dB with those SVS ultra towers.

Probably closer to 80+db when you use an accurate SPL meter. At that level, the speakers will probably sound fine with Denon internal amps but peaks will be somewhat compressed with explosions as compared with the Monolith 7X200. The Denon will also run quite warm after 90 minutes of use at that level. I would highly recommend these fans.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JLV4BWC/

Audyssey will set the levels correctly, including the subs. If you raise the center or the subs much higher than the recommended level the FR will start to be impacted. If you need more bass I would suggest turning on Dynamic EQ rather than raising the Sub levels by 8-10.

Have fun!

 

[peng]

Just to be clear, when the Denon 3700 shows 70 as the volume on the screen that's way above 70dB with those SVS ultra towers.

I think you may be confusing him. Of course the actual spl will not be 70 dB but vary with the input signal, so will the other channels.

Probably closer to 80+db when you use an accurate SPL meter. At that level, the speakers will probably sound fine with Denon internal amps but peaks will be somewhat compressed with explosions as compared with the Monolith 7X200. The Denon will also run quite warm after 90 minutes of use at that level. I would highly recommend these fans.

Why would it be compressed? He ran Audyssey, and he confirmed the level trim settings were at 0 or within +/- 2 dB as I guessed.. So with volume at about 80, with THX standard film mixed, it would about 105 dB maximum peak per speaker. With volume at 70, max spl would be about 95 dB, sub will be higher but the internal amps for the speakers should not be compressed, not unless and until he cranks it up to 80 or higher.

Audyssey will set the levels correctly, including the subs. If you raise the center or the subs much higher than the recommended level the FR will start to be impacted. If you need more bass I would suggest turning on Dynamic EQ rather than raising the Sub levels by 8-10.

Well definitely not by 8-10 dB, I have no idea why he has to do that, but to increase it by 2-3 dB should be fine for those two P2000 Pros.

 

[spartaman64]

at a quick glance i thought this was about CPUs

 

[Head_Unit]

Is this how it is.?

Sure. I don't think all amps sound the same, but I don't think the differences are huge. And I could well be wrong, never having done any kind of blind test, there might be no difference below clipping. (Tests where you know the amp is changed are invalid due to possible psychological effects).
- Plus human hearing is less sensitive at low levels, so harder to hear differences if there are any.
- Here is an extreme null case: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/denon-vs-parts-express-round-1.984507/
- Are you gonna return that Monoprice? Seems you don't need it.

 

[sharkhunter]

Sure. I don't think all amps sound the same, but I don't think the differences are huge. And I could well be wrong, never having done any kind of blind test, there might be no difference below clipping. (Tests where you know the amp is changed are invalid due to possible psychological effects).
- Plus human hearing is less sensitive at low levels, so harder to hear differences if there are any.
- Here is an extreme null case: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/denon-vs-parts-express-round-1.984507/
- Are you gonna return that Monoprice? Seems you don't need it.

Just received the Monoprice amp a week ago. Might use it for a week or so and decide. They are really heavy and never thought that amps could be that heavy.