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Denon 2023 range X3900H/X4900H/X6800H announcement....!!??
- Thread starter rana_kirti
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SynthesisCinema
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Not true! You are mixing it to X1800H which came later and only the USA model was fitted with front pre-outs while EU/UK did not have it.
I pray to god that we all live until the fall of 2027. Will also light up few candles on my terrace to that extent. Not only to enjoy the Onkyo AVRs, but in general, for good carma.Denon AVR-X2900H DAB with pre-outs for front channels and Dirac Live logo at the back of the unit! The MultEQ XT sucks so this would be great addition for those who don`t require extra channels/processing/independent sub outs of X3900H!
AV receiver DENON AVR-X2900HDAB | Ronis
www.ronis.hr
Onkyo NR6200 is fitted with Dirac Live Limited, launch at fall or 2027. It was on the higher NR7100 and RZ30 as full version so the next trend seems to be fitting Dirac in lower costing products.
Yamaha please get rid of YPAO!
Ah you're right. I mixed it with zone 2 preoutsNot true! You are mixing it to X1800H which came later and only the USA model was fitted with front pre-outs while EU/UK did not have it.
Only had x2800h for a brief time before changing to x3800h
Good to know, it seems odd that the X1800H (NA version) has pre outs for the FL and FR but the X2800H does not have them.
SynthesisCinema
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X1800H was launched later 10/2023 and the X2800H year before. The main thing for D&M is to include those for EU/UK model this time and not save pennies! At the same time Marantz Cinema 70s has full set of pre-outs, but that product is ruined by the lousy 22 year old MultEQ version. AVR-X2900H being Dirac Live ready means the next Cinema 61 will too. Next slim version is unlikely to have it as it could start eating sales from higher models. Hopefully i`m wrong though! They could bump it up to MultEQ XT, but as we have seen here some pre/post measurements it`s lousy correcting low frequencies with the lack of filters. Audyssey should refresh all of these!
8ch ES9017 would make sense as the higher spec chips from the company are already being used in X6800H/C30/A10H/A1H etc. The new upcoming Onkyo TX-RZ31 will have this 9017S DAC IC on board! The higher models will get the ES9027 Pro stepping up from 9026 Pro. Onkyo is also adding ART support, 4x subwoofer pre-outs, 11.4 processing and large front display to RZ31. If they nail the pricing then X3900H will have tougher time as it also comes with fb. Dirac out of box..
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Only for the sake of clarity/accuracy, the A10/1H and the AV10/20 use the what ESS called "reference" class ES9018K2M. The ES9017 and ES9027Pro are the updated/new version of their predecessors.
It seems that traditionally, ESS Sabre's "reference" DACs are the ES90X8 or X9 such as the 9018, 9028, 9038, 9039 and their corresponding X2M (such as the K2M, Q2M) versions.
The question that may make a difference is whether they have increased CPU power - and therefore the number of available cross-terms for Dirac ART... (and perhaps made available other processing options.... Loudness?)
Doubtful. They already have a proven platform that has working ART in the current gen. Makes no sense to increase the cost of the DSP and further increase the MSRP for very little demand in this segment (mass market). If you want more power, there are many enthusiast choices like HTP-1, Storm, etc. that can give you that.
Don't know enough about the cost of DSPs vs potential performance. But see a point that it would make sense to up the DSP on new line if they are to follow previous approach that 3x00H and above will share the same DSP. They in fact did always upgrade DSP for new lines in the recent times.
We are in the age of quick technological advancements, and who is to say that in 2 years someone will not come up with AI freeware (or payware) that will spank Dirac's but by a factor of 2 - but will require more DSP processing. Or it could be Dirac themselves to come up with a new and more processing intensive solution.
If Denon would be asking for my advice
p) I would rather cut some corners elsewhere but have quite a bit on headroom on the DSP. They outgunned the market with their current line because DSP was able to do ART.Don't forget that you are proposing adding cost to a feature that is still quite optional for a D&M customer (really only to satisfy Dirac ART as Audyssey probably doesn't care).Don't know enough about the cost of DSPs vs potential performance. But see a point that it would make sense to up the DSP on new line if they are to follow previous approach that 3x00H and above will share the same DSP. They in fact did always upgrade DSP for new lines in the recent times.
We are in the age of quick technological advancements, and who is to say that in 2 years someone will not come up with AI freeware (or payware) that will spank Dirac's but by a factor of 2 - but will require more DSP processing. Or it could be Dirac themselves to come up with a new and more processing intensive solution.
If Denon would be asking for my advice
What can I say - I am a spender. Cost would likely be marginal but might put them in market dominant position if the next big thing comes along. D&M are not exactly a small company and think they can afford it. Sometimes even if not about profits, it is about bragging rights.
The fabulous move to offer ART in the mass market while others could not is a classic example of the bragging rights.
SynthesisCinema
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Visited my friendly dealer and asked about the AVC-X3900H. Sadly he could not reveal all the secrets yet due to NDA. The DAC IC won´t be what we wanted, but hopefully some modern chip with good specs as they advertised "updated 8-ch DAC" so surely D&M need to give us something better! We should know more next week with the official launch.
Then just need to find local member who could order it to @amirm . I live so far away other side of the world so can`t help unfortunately. I would also love to see the lower X2900H measured by @amirm as it comes with the front pre-outs this time and Dirac support means it`s going to sell lot more with folks who has smaller entry level systems.The only 2000 serie Denon measured here is the old X2200W and Amir said; There is no preamp output so I can't test the DAC portion by itself. So all the tests are from speaker output.
Denon AVR-X2200W Audio/Video Receiver Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X2200W home theater AVR (processor and amplifier). It is on kind loan from a member. Looks like the unit was released back in 2015. I can't find the pricing on it but I am guessing US $700 when new. Used ones seem to go for as...
www.audiosciencereview.com
SynthesisCinema
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Currently it looks like D&M went with other manufacturer over the ESS reading between the lines after the chat i had. I don´t know which part specifically and can´t confirm anything 100% so we just have to wait and see. Marantz launch is expected for later ~ September if they follow their usual timeline for new product launches. "Cinema 61" could be great alternative with full set of pre-outs, Dirac Live support and nicer premium looks with Silver Gold. Ideally they would give us two independent sub outs for Cinema 61 and X2900H, then four for the C51 and X3900H!
I suspect it might be too big a jump for the X2900H and C61 to get two discrete subout if they are sticking to 8 channel DAC chips. As to which chip, I hope they are not going to stick with TI because they currently don't really have "new" products that offers SINAD better than 93 dB.
If they don't use the ES9017 that they are already using in the X6800H and Cinema 30, then there are also the AKM and Cirrus Logic ones but both of those would seem too good, as they have better specs than the ES9017, but then their use of the PCM5102A to replace the AK4458 surprised many, so who knows? May be your dealer source doesn't really know either as he might have been guessing as well.
The thing is, if it really is a "new" 32 bit DAC IC, it is easy to narrow down, a quick Google AI search will get you no more than 2 or 3 suitable candidates, of which only 1 or 2 would fit, in terms of their cost relative to the currently used ES9017. If it is one of the older/existing one, then there would be more choices, including those from AKM and TI.