The one implemented on the current 3800/4800/C50/40/60/70 has a very mediocre SINAD of 93 dB but measured better than that on the bench (except the 3800 for some reason) so D+M has done a very good job on implementation. The X3900H supposedly uses the CS4308S DAC chip that is a current output type, and this is probably the first time D+M implemented a current output DAC on their midrange AVRs. They definitely now how to implement such DAC (as proven by the AV10, AVR-A1H, C30, AVR-X6800H etc., so chance is very good that we can expect much better results, but you never know until we see the test results.
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Denon 2023 range X3900H/X4900H/X6800H announcement....!!??
- Thread starter rana_kirti
- Start date
The one implemented on the current 3800/4800/C50/40/60/70 has a very mediocre SINAD of 93 dB but measured better than that on the bench (except the 3800 for some reason) so D+M has done a very good job on implementation. The X3900H supposedly uses the CS4308S DAC chip that is a current output type, and this is probably the first time D+M implemented a current output DAC on their midrange AVRs. They definitely now how to implement such DAC (as proven by the AV10, AVR-A1H, C30, AVR-X6800H etc., so chance is very good that we can expect much better results, but you never know until we see the test results.
Correct.
You, my good sir, are a saint.
four_strings_good
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I was not familiar with that particular three-letter acronym (TLA) so I looked it up. I hope this may be helpful for others here
"QMS stands for Quick Media Switching — an HDMI 2.1 feature that eliminates the brief black/blank screen when a source switches between different frame rates (e.g., 24Hz → 60Hz) by using VRR/VTEM mechanisms; it requires support in both the source and the display/AVR."
I fully expect the X3900H to outperform the X3800H in terms of bench tests, but since the X3800H might soon be put on clearance sale (purely speculation, but also based on past sales deals when such products are being discontinued), it may be time to recap some of the concerns people have, over the ASR measurements.
Single point SINAD is not the best indicator so I would compare the following graphs instead, and with a well, if not best measured AVR so far, one being the Anthem MRX-1140:
Now, for a quick reference, to the X3700H that uses the AK4458 DAC chip that is comparable to, though not quite as good as the CS4308S the X3900H supposedly uses:
We can see that the X3700H, if used as preamp/dac, would do slightly worse than the excellent Anthem MRX-1140 below 1 kHz but actually a little better in the >1 kHz range!
So it is quite possible that the X3900H might do very well, even comparable to the X6800H and the Cinema 30. Can't wait to see it measured by Amir, as until that happens, we can only speculate, or at best, take our own educated guess.
Still, when one looks in details and think in practical terms, the AVR-X3800H, if go below the $1K mark, it would be very tempting.
Single point SINAD is not the best indicator so I would compare the following graphs instead, and with a well, if not best measured AVR so far, one being the Anthem MRX-1140:
Now, for a quick reference, to the X3700H that uses the AK4458 DAC chip that is comparable to, though not quite as good as the CS4308S the X3900H supposedly uses:
We can see that the X3700H, if used as preamp/dac, would do slightly worse than the excellent Anthem MRX-1140 below 1 kHz but actually a little better in the >1 kHz range!
So it is quite possible that the X3900H might do very well, even comparable to the X6800H and the Cinema 30. Can't wait to see it measured by Amir, as until that happens, we can only speculate, or at best, take our own educated guess.
Still, when one looks in details and think in practical terms, the AVR-X3800H, if go below the $1K mark, it would be very tempting.
We won't know unit measured, but it's entirely possible the 3900 Denon will measure worse than Denon 3800 and 3700. Personally, I have seen too many compromises with Cirrus Logic chip designs. It's certainly not the quality of an AKM DAC.
One Example:
On the Distortion of Cirrus Logic CS431xx-Based Devices: A Comparative Review
TL;DR / Changelog [5/20/25] Eleven DAC/HP amp combo devices adopting either the Cirrus Logic CS43131 or CS43198 were tested, and seven of them were found produce the distortion dubbed a "Cirrus hump." Based on measurements from multiple sources (including this review), a list of...
www.audiosciencereview.com
The added advantages Cirrus Logic has is the Wolfson factor, Wolfson was well known for their dacs. And I trust Denon’s experience in implementing current output dacs. Of course we have to wait and see, no disagreement there, I might be just a little more hopeful.We won't know unit measured, but it's entirely possible the 3900 Denon will measure worse than Denon 3800 and 3700. Personally, I have seen too many compromises with Cirrus Logic chip designs. It's certainly not the quality of an AKM DAC.
One Example:
On the Distortion of Cirrus Logic CS431xx-Based Devices: A Comparative Review
TL;DR / Changelog [5/20/25] Eleven DAC/HP amp combo devices adopting either the Cirrus Logic CS43131 or CS43198 were tested, and seven of them were found produce the distortion dubbed a "Cirrus hump." Based on measurements from multiple sources (including this review), a list of...
You realize all the Wolfson engineers are long gone? There is no Wolfson factor. Buy outs, brain drain and profit margin driven operations typically change things since a 2014 merger?
I do realize 2014 is history, but I am not sure we can assume there is no "Wolfson factor" as such, though perhaps "influence" might be more appropriate vs factor. Just did a Copilot search and there seem to be evidence of some Wolfson influence, good, bad, neutral, not really sure.You realize all the Wolfson engineers are long gone? There is no Wolfson factor. Buy outs, brain drain and profit margin driven operations typically change things since a 2014 merger?
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Cirrus Logic Agrees to Acquire Wolfson Microelectronics
Acquisition Expected to Strengthen Cirrus Logic’s Leadership Position in Audio ICs and Software for Portable Audio Applications Cirrus Logic, Inc. (NASDAQ : CRUS) and Wolfson Microelectronics plc (LSE : WLF or WLF.L) today announced the terms of a recommended transaction under which Cirrus Logic...
I don't think those DAC sound signature claims are verifiable by blind listening tests anyway, just thought for CL to pay hundreds of millions dollars ($467 million)for the acquisition, they likely did try to leverage “Wolfson has a rich history of audio innovation......" at the time. So whatever they got out of it, might have benefit their own DAC design, or not.
Whatever it is, based on info on datasheets, this time D+M at least wisely picked a DAC IC that has much better specs and should cost more not just for the IC, but also implementation because they have to do the I to V conversion, so quite a few opamps, along with other electronic parts, will have to be added to the BOM.
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Me too!
Yes, I would not be happy if this becomes available on the 3900 but isn't available on the A1H!
Given what they say--it only works in Atmos--that has to be exactly what it is (not a problem with DTS: X mixes). A way to "fix" some "Atmouse" type mixes. That would be a fantastic addition. When I'm listening to an Atmos track and a loud sound goes from my left front to my left side surround and completely skips the wide channel, it pisses me off. (I know, first world problems, right?
)The very concept of Atmos from the beginning and all the advertisement was that it would solve such problems--not cause them. Since I've installed wide channel speakers (which I love) I've got a new appreciation for simple 5.1/7.1 mixes on Bluerays, as Neural: X and DSU (finally!) will make full use of the wides. Though I haven't ever had 6 height channels to check, it's pretty widely documented what some of the mixes do with those. If D&M can improve these substandard mixes, that would be an impressive feature from non-Storm/Trinnov, etc.
Wow, that is a sweet deal.
They still offer it for 999 € here. But this is already happening for some months.
Interested buyers should watch out for availability. A price-compare-site here tagged it as a "top mover".
Bizznesssox
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I just picked up a Denon AVR-X3900H. My current receiver is an Onkyo TX-RZ70, which I bought about three weeks ago, and my main speakers are Klipsch Forte IVs.
I live in an apartment, so one feature I really missed when I upgraded from my Denon S970H to the RZ70 was Audyssey's Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. I was hoping the X3900H would give me a slight step back in two-channel performance but a major improvement for late-night listening.
After spending some time with it, I can say that Audyssey XT32, Dynamic EQ, and Dynamic Volume are every bit as good as I expected. For low-volume listening, they are outstanding. However, when listening to music in Pure Direct/Pure Audio mode, the Denon is a fairly significant downgrade compared to the Onkyo.
The RZ70 sounds less forward, wider, smoother, and more refined overall. I'm honestly wondering if I've configured something incorrectly, because all of my music listening is done in Pure Audio mode.
Considering I paid only $1,600 out the door for the RZ70, compared to about $1,850 plus tax for the X3900H, the difference is surprising. I understand the RZ70 is essentially a flagship-level receiver, but nothing I've heard can match what Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume do for late-night listening. It allows listening at almost whisper-level volumes while still maintaining impact, tonal balance, and crystal-clear dialogue.
At this point, it feels like the Onkyo is the better receiver for serious two-channel music listening and home theater with Dirac, while the Denon remains unmatched for low-volume apartment living and late-night viewing.
I will just have to settle to for the lesser compression of like the Roku or something. My intention was to return my RZ70 but I do not think I can settle for the quite lesser 2 channel performance.
I live in an apartment, so one feature I really missed when I upgraded from my Denon S970H to the RZ70 was Audyssey's Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. I was hoping the X3900H would give me a slight step back in two-channel performance but a major improvement for late-night listening.
After spending some time with it, I can say that Audyssey XT32, Dynamic EQ, and Dynamic Volume are every bit as good as I expected. For low-volume listening, they are outstanding. However, when listening to music in Pure Direct/Pure Audio mode, the Denon is a fairly significant downgrade compared to the Onkyo.
The RZ70 sounds less forward, wider, smoother, and more refined overall. I'm honestly wondering if I've configured something incorrectly, because all of my music listening is done in Pure Audio mode.
Considering I paid only $1,600 out the door for the RZ70, compared to about $1,850 plus tax for the X3900H, the difference is surprising. I understand the RZ70 is essentially a flagship-level receiver, but nothing I've heard can match what Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume do for late-night listening. It allows listening at almost whisper-level volumes while still maintaining impact, tonal balance, and crystal-clear dialogue.
At this point, it feels like the Onkyo is the better receiver for serious two-channel music listening and home theater with Dirac, while the Denon remains unmatched for low-volume apartment living and late-night viewing.
I will just have to settle to for the lesser compression of like the Roku or something. My intention was to return my RZ70 but I do not think I can settle for the quite lesser 2 channel performance.
Bizznesssox
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I fed both analog through my phone and JCally JM20 DAC, questyle m15i and over AirPlay. I didn’t say it sounded bad, it was just quite inferior to the RZ70, I described the best I could on the differences in my post. It probably should be inferior, just didn’t expect this big of a difference.
I can't honestly follow most of what was posted. Your impressions are to some extent valuable, but without any measurements they just turn into a rant.
Bizznesssox
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Rant? Just gave my impression. Idk how measurements will make it sound better to me . I’m sure someone will Measure soon and maybe it measures great. It’s a newer product, someone might value my initial impression. I have no horse in This race, in fact I went out of my way to get the Denon because I prefer a Denon feature. Hoping to hear others impressions, I don’t need to them to measure to give an opinion.