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Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

terasankka

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Can't come up with any viable reason why Ares II should sound less fatiguing than say a Topping E30 or D90.. :)
Perhaps if you like NOS mode treble roll-off but one could argue if that's really worth the cost.

I am running OS mode and it still sound less fatiguing. Might be placebo but I do not care. :D I also have the D30 and I had the D90 in a test. It makes no sense measurement wise, but both make me turn off the music after an hour of listening as my ears just get fatigued. The Ares II does not do that. Psychoacoustics maybe - but this happens also when I am using it as a background music so I am not even paying attention to the music and still the Toppings made my ears fatigued.
 

mlilliman

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Read through this topic with interest; a lovely mixture of passive aggressive posts and some genuine interest into why a good measuring DAC may sound (positively) different from others.

I've a question about the testing, if possible? When plotting the frequency response of a DAC, presumably a test tone at stepped frequencies are sent to the DAC, and the line or curve is drawn after compiling all the results? If so, is there a possibility that some DAC implementations handle a complex passage of music differently to single test tones? How do you measure a snapshot of music, when music by its definition, is time oriented?
 

Killingbeans

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If so, is there a possibility that some DAC implementations handle a complex passage of music differently to single test tones?

I've seen a lot of people claim that non-periodic steady-state signals and/or signals with temporary transient behavior would be more analogous to music and would reveal weaknesses in DACs that normal periodic steady-state tests can't. None of them however, seem to give any plausible explanation of how these weaknesses would manifest themselves on the output. I'm no expert on signal processing, but even with whatever little I do know in mind, the idea that some signals will make a DAC "sweat" more than others seems like a misguided attempt at forcing a specific flavor of intuitive thinking upon something that functions in a completely different manner. But I do understand why people like the idea :)
 
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Frank Dernie

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Read through this topic with interest; a lovely mixture of passive aggressive posts and some genuine interest into why a good measuring DAC may sound (positively) different from others.

I've a question about the testing, if possible? When plotting the frequency response of a DAC, presumably a test tone at stepped frequencies are sent to the DAC, and the line or curve is drawn after compiling all the results? If so, is there a possibility that some DAC implementations handle a complex passage of music differently to single test tones? How do you measure a snapshot of music, when music by its definition, is time oriented?
If you are not into mathematics, and I realise more than 90% of people are not, looking into the theory is probably too hard to understand, and hard for me since I am old and my daily use of maths stopped over 10 years ago.
OTOH if you accept the maths (like we do accepting cars, aeroplanes space travel etc) rather than try to follow all the detail, the salient points are that as long as the sampling frequency is double the highest frequency in the signal when it is digitised, and as long as any frequency higher than this is filtered out on the analogue signal when it is converted back, then this output is the same as the input was.
There are obvious limitations to this.
Firstly any of the analogue limitations of noise and distortion.
Secondly, the signal to be digitised must have everything above half the sampling frequency removed by an anti-aliasing filter.
Thirdly everything above half the sampling frequency needs to be removed from the analogue signal coming out of the digital to analogue conversion process using a reconstruction filter.
The rate of change of musical transients is entirely contained in the frequency domain, so all of it is accurately reproduced, as long as it is below half the sampling frequency. Since the human audio bandwidth is traditionally quoted as 20 Hz to 20 kHz all audible information, including transients, complies on all commercial recording formats.
So, where can it go wrong?
If an anti aliasing filter is not used there will be artefacts in the recording. AFAIK nothing we can do on replay can fix this so it is basically a bad recording which does not comply with the standards.
There were lots of pictures, back in the day, and even sometimes still seen now 40 years later, showing a staircase type of output from digital devices. The reconstruction filter removes these since they, if they existed, would be above half the sampling frequency.
So certainly DACs with "eccentric" or no reconstruction filters will fail to draw "the line or curve drawn after compiling all the results" as you put it, but otherwise not.
So yes, some DAC strategies do not as accurately convert the digital value back to an accurate analogue value, but that was a problem in early days which is solved in most implementations today of DAC technology.
The DAC strategy that gives an output wave which fails to follow complex passages accurately will be in the choice of reconstruction filter, which IME can be audible (I hear the effect of some but not all the ones I have tried on DACs I own with switchable filters).
Sensibly, the "standard" reconstruction filter is the one removing the most spurious output so the vast majority of modern DACs do a good job of drawing the line or curve after compiling all the results"
 

terasankka

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Sensibly, the "standard" reconstruction filter is the one removing the most spurious output so the vast majority of modern DACs do a good job of drawing the line or curve after compiling all the results"

Ares II is a R2R DAC. Maybe that has something to do with it.
 

Veri

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Ares II is a R2R DAC. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Reconstruction filters are reconstruction filters which remains the same thing, R2R is just the conversion method.
 

Frank Dernie

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Ares II is a R2R DAC. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Being R2R only influences the accuracy of conversion not the reconstruction filter.
It is very, very expensive to get resistors accurate enough for the DAC to be as linear as some other technologies. Pretty all early DACs were R2R at the start, it is the most "obvious" way to do it but not easy or inexpensive to do well.
The reconstruction filter is applied after the signal is converted by whatever conversion technology is used.
It can't improve the accuracy or linearity, just remove artefacts.
 
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terasankka

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Being R2R only influences the accuracy of conversion not the reconstruction filter.

Yes, that is what I meant. Maybe the Ares II is little bit "inaccurate" and that makes it sound less fatiguing. I have no clue what I am saying here as I am not technical enough on this topic - just trying to "brainstorm" why it sounds different to my Topping DACs.
 

Frank Dernie

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Yes, that is what I meant. Maybe the Ares II is little bit "inaccurate" and that makes it sound less fatiguing. I have no clue what I am saying here as I am not technical enough on this topic - just trying to "brainstorm" why it sounds different to my Topping DACs.
I am not sure how inaccurate yours is.
The one tested here was very good but, given the technology, none will be exactly the same but I don't know by how much.
 

JohnM-73

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Intrigued by the seeming disparity between the resolution measurements between ASR (18 bits) and Stereophile (22 bits!):

John Atkinson “An increase in bit depth from 16 to 24, with dithered data representing a 1kHz tone at –90dBFS, dropped both the Terminator's and Ares II's noise floors by around 35dB (fig.10). This implies a resolution of close to 22 bits, which is among the highest I have found.”

I’m a complete novice here, so what am I missing? :)
 

VintageFlanker

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Intrigued by the seeming disparity between the resolution measurements between ASR (18 bits) and Stereophile (22 bits!):

John Atkinson “An increase in bit depth from 16 to 24, with dithered data representing a 1kHz tone at –90dBFS, dropped both the Terminator's and Ares II's noise floors by around 35dB (fig.10). This implies a resolution of close to 22 bits, which is among the highest I have found.”

I’m a complete novice here, so what am I missing? :)
Comparing the Linearity test, which doesn't exist in the Stereophile review, with something else.
 

gvl

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The results of the Linearity test at Stereophile are interesting I should say.
 

gvl

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Denafripfig13.jpg
 

bunkbail

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Veri

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That's for the Terminator not the Ares II, but yeah I agree it's interesting.
I thought he said the measurement was the same for both. Too lazy to read again...
However, the red trace in fig.13—taken with the Terminator; the Ares II behaved identically—shows that the error toggles between +1dB and –1dB with each 2.33dB step down.

Amir's review unit does not appear to have shown this though. Hmm.
 

gvl

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However, the red trace in fig.13—taken with the Terminator; the Ares II behaved identically—shows that the error toggles between +1dB and –1dB with each 2.33dB step down.

Amir's review unit does not appear to have shown this though. Hmm.

IIRC Amir has some secret sauce in his linearity measurement, like a custom very narrow filter. JA may use the AP's default and results are polluted by unrelated artifacts.
 

bunkbail

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However, the red trace in fig.13—taken with the Terminator; the Ares II behaved identically—shows that the error toggles between +1dB and –1dB with each 2.33dB step down.

Amir's review unit does not appear to have shown this though. Hmm.
I missed that part, but then again the linearity test was done in NOS mode. Maybe that's why the error was missing in Amir's test.
 
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