Denafrips Ares II + Topping Pre90 impedance issue

[raif71]

Is there an adapter xlr that can increase a low impedance to high impedance? Maybe could plug this adapter to the input xlr of pre90 to increase its impedance.

 

[formdissolve]

Is there an adapter xlr that can increase a low impedance to high impedance? Maybe could plug this adapter to the input xlr of pre90 to increase its impedance.

The input impedance is set internally in the PRE90, so no external adapters could brute force anything higher.

 

[nn_in]

PA5 input impedance is about 10K, so it should be fine for the Ares 2. New firmware on Ares 2 allows for volume control, but not sure of the quality.. Using the analog volume on the PA5 might have the best sound quality. D30 is definitely compatible with PA5, but if you already bought the Ares you could test out that volume control and see how it works with the remote. It has a remote right?

Thank You for the response.I was searching for PA5 input impedance on the net but could not find it.Good to know it's 10k.

I have Ares2 and PA5.

Ares2 does not have any remote.

Iam assuming the digital volume control is applicable only when you connect a laptop to USB input ?

At this time iam feeding a streamer optical out to Ares2 optical input. Output XLR of Ares2 to Pa5 trs input.

I play Spotify and streamer sends the optical out to Ares2 .The volume cannot be controlled this way.I have to use the volume pot on the pa5 .I need to get up and manually do this.

Hence I thought I may need a preamp with remote volume control like the topping d30 pro.In this case the Ares2 will not get used.

 

[nn_in]

Can’t you control the volume on the Denon? I mean if it has volume control, I don’t know.

The remote of Denon DNP 800 volume works only when the variable analog/rca outputs is used. The volume on remote control does not work when the optical out is used to feed a external dac

 

[formdissolve]

The remote of Denon DNP 800 volume works only when the variable analog/rca outputs is used. The volume on remote control does not work when the optical out is used to feed a external dac

At that point, it's up to you if you want to get rid of the Ares and use something like the D30 and control the volume digitally, or keep the Ares and get a preamp with analog control with remote. I found that getting up to control the amp isn't that terrible after awhile, but I kind of want to get a remote-controlled pre-amp like the A90 Discrete or something... (A90 Discrete has the same balanced input impedance as Pre90 so balanced Ares wouldn't work). Good luck with the decision!

 

[nn_in]

At that point, it's up to you if you want to get rid of the Ares and use something like the D30 and control the volume digitally, or keep the Ares and get a preamp with analog control with remote. I found that getting up to control the amp isn't that terrible after awhile, but I kind of want to get a remote-controlled pre-amp like the A90 Discrete or something... (A90 Discrete has the same balanced input impedance as Pre90 so balanced Ares wouldn't work). Good luck with the decision!

Valuable insights for me.Thanks.

A90D and Pre90pre will be given a pass for now as i don't use headphones and it has the impedance issues stated in this thread.

I may plan for D30 pro in future.As i have a PA5 a XLR based preamp is essential.

For now it's Ares2 and PA5 as is.

 

[nn_in]

At that point, it's up to you if you want to get rid of the Ares and use something like the D30 and control the volume digitally, or keep the Ares and get a preamp with analog control with remote. I found that getting up to control the amp isn't that terrible after awhile, but I kind of want to get a remote-controlled pre-amp like the A90 Discrete or something... (A90 Discrete has the same balanced input impedance as Pre90 so balanced Ares wouldn't work). Good luck with the decision!

Will the Schiit Freya S as a preamp work without the impedance issues ?Then it's Ares2 to Freya S to PA3
In future when prices cool down for purifi amps with XLR inputs i can continue to keep the Ares2 ,Freya in the chain.

 

[formdissolve]

Will the Schiit Freya S as a preamp work without the impedance issues ?Then it's Ares2 to Freya S to PA3
In future when prices cool down for purifi amps with XLR inputs i can continue to keep the Ares2 ,Freya in the chain.

I'm assuming it will work but you'd have to check the input impedance and do the math. As long as the input impedance is at least 8-10 times greater than the output impedance of the ares II (balanced is 1250ohms), than you should be fine

 

[raif71]

Now I understand why my audio shop seller mentioned something along the lines...if you get Topping Pre90 and get Topping DACs then that should be ok... I don't think he knows about impedance matching but something that he heard. I got the Gustard P26 instead...not because I knew about the input impedance but because it had more inputs compared to pre90.

 

[nn_in]

I'm assuming it will work but you'd have to check the input impedance and do the math. As long as the input impedance is at least 8-10 times greater than the output impedance of the ares II (balanced is 1250ohms), than you should be fine

Sharing the info as it may help other folks.As specs are subject to change do visit mfr website to verify before buying.

Preamp options:
Option 1 Ares 2 to Freya S to PA5
Option 2 Ares 2 to Gustard A26 to PA5

Ares2 output impedance XLR 1250 Ω to Freya- S input impedance 10K ; Freya-S output impedance XLR 600 R (balanced) to PA5 input impedance 10K

Gustard with input impedace 47K ; output impedance 100R seems better for my application where i would connect a power amp ie PA5 or equivalent.

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-s

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac

PA5 input impedance posted/mentioned in ASR by Topping in PA5 discussions

GUSTARD P26 LM49860 Preamplifier

GUSTARD P26 technical characteristics: Because the DIP8 had been discontinued, the new batch LME49860 was changed to SO-8 version without op-amp socket. ***The P26 preamp uses the new remote control, please press and hold the AMP button for more than 3 seconds to enter the P26 preamp operation...

shenzhenaudio.com

 

[Bcook69]

For starters make sure you only have one set of inputs connected on the Ares, there’s a warning about it in the manual. If the issue is real you can indeed try the RCAs, it may work better due to higher impedance on the Pre90 for single ended. If that fails too you’ll need a different preamp with high input impedance. Or use digital volume control as suggested earlier.

It’s one set of outputs at a time that is the warning.

 

[Joel G]

The RCA input impedance is better at 10k though. So that can be an option to use.

Hi Veri. Does that mean that i would get a better impedance match or better sound quality going from an Ares II to the Pre90 via RCA than via XLR?

 

[Veri]

Hi Veri. Does that mean that i would get a better impedance match or better sound quality going from an Ares II to the Pre90 via RCA than via XLR?

Are you using XLR right now? Do you have any problems at all? If no, it's probably fine.

 

[Joel G]

Are you using XLR right now? Do you have any problems at all? If no, it's probably fine.

Hi again. It’s not exactly like that. I own a Pre90 (which currently is back at where i bought it from because of loud popping noises) and would like to upgrade from my Topping E30 (RCA output) to an Ares. I am considering these impedance issues which have been mentioned to decide if I pull the trigger on the Ares II and give it a try or rather another DAC with lower impedance. I guess I must try it both ways and see if it works as you say. Or get a different Pre at some point…

 

[roderickvd]

Objectively I don’t think it’s a good stackup. Go RCA and you throw away half of the R2R ladder. Go XLR and your impedance does not match so nicely. Pick your poison or choose something else, I would say.

 

[Joel G]

Objectively I don’t think it’s a good stackup. Go RCA and you throw away half of the R2R ladder. Go XLR and your impedance does not match so nicely. Pick your poison or choose something else, I would say.

Thanks for the input

 

[raif71]

Sharing the info as it may help other folks.As specs are subject to change do visit mfr website to verify before buying.

Preamp options:
Option 1 Ares 2 to Freya S to PA5
Option 2 Ares 2 to Gustard A26 to PA5

Ares2 output impedance XLR 1250 Ω to Freya- S input impedance 10K ; Freya-S output impedance XLR 600 R (balanced) to PA5 input impedance 10K

Gustard with input impedace 47K ; output impedance 100R seems better for my application where i would connect a power amp ie PA5 or equivalent.

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-s

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac

PA5 input impedance posted/mentioned in ASR by Topping in PA5 discussions

GUSTARD P26 LM49860 Preamplifier

GUSTARD P26 technical characteristics: Because the DIP8 had been discontinued, the new batch LME49860 was changed to SO-8 version without op-amp socket. ***The P26 preamp uses the new remote control, please press and hold the AMP button for more than 3 seconds to enter the P26 preamp operation...

shenzhenaudio.com

I just noticed for the Option 2, you mentioned Gustard A26... should have been "Gustard P26", A26 is another dac...

 

[Artzox]

Looking at adding a Schiit Saga S in passive mode between my Ares ii and an xduuo Ta26 preamp to get a remote volume control.
The Ares has 625ohms output impedance, the schiit is 10k input and 4.8kohms max output impedance, and the input impedance of the xduuo is 47kohm (based on ne searches I did). Will this sound ok, I am expecting the saga not to change the sound at all just attenuated the volume?

Did anyone test the Ares ii digital attenuation driver as this may end up being a better sounding option albeit not bit-perfect? Unfortunately dsp attenuation via Roon converts dsd to pcm, so it is a no-go for me.

Thanks

 

[roderickvd]

Impedances should be fine.

Don’t know about that driver, but if you are saying it attenuates DSD then it must also do so by some digital-to-digital conversion.

 

[mcdn]

One bit for every 6.02 dB of attenuation.

Ha! But you risk perpetuating the myth that digital volume controls lose fidelity in “whole bit” increments. Maybe some do, but most work by attenuating the signal in floating point and then converting to PCM, so they are still 16 or 24 bit accurate, just quieter.