Denafrips Ares II - is it really worth it?

[scruffy1]

It's more that it requires an interest in doing it. I suppose a multimeter could be considered sophisticated equipment, but maybe you are overcomplicating the process.

Other than being a bit of a pain to put together a test with appropriate rigor it doesn't require specialized training or fancy equipment.

Without that excuse, are you interested in actually testing yourself now?

i admit to a certain inertia when it comes to undertaking the testing if i am already satisfied; roi for such endeavour will perchance prove i wasted my time shopping for a better dac, and then i wasted more time proving i didn't need to, to no great benefit other than scientific curiosity

edit: yes, i realise this site is audioscience, so there's that

i understand the enthusiasm of those who enjoy the experiment, but my available time and numerous other interests make it less compelling for me


again i would ask if a simpler dac device with a less sophisticated power supply could perform to the same level as a more complex one with a superior chip and independent power input, and the answer seems to be affirmative but no-one actually says "yes"

can an es9028q2m equal an es9098pro due to excellent design of the associated dac ? if so, ess seem to be producing redundant "superior" chips

so while i fully appreciate the encouragement to try and find out for myself with experimentation, i am asking as a generic concept are superior components of no consequence to the quality of reproduction?

if they aren't, then further dacs are redundant as we as listeners have already exceeded our ability to benefit from improvements we can't appreciate

but of course, commerce and creating demand don't care about that

genuine questions here. i am not trying to troll

 

[Purité Audio]

The answers you seek will be found in each dac’s measurements, but generally,
‘if they aren't, then further dacs are redundant as we as listeners have already exceeded our ability to benefit from improvements we can't appreciate’.
Keith

 

[BDWoody]

if they aren't, then further dacs are redundant as we as listeners have already exceeded our ability to benefit from improvements we can't appreciate

In terms of sound quality, I don't disagree. That doesn't mean different or new DACs might not have useful features that provide an upgraded overall experience, but better sound quality typically shouldn't be an expectation unless the DAC being replaced is broken (sometimes by design) or poorly chosen.

 

[scruffy1]

well, guess i'm at my end game for dacs then

the extra features of the e70 (ldac bluetooth, 12v trigger, auto dimming screen) are all winners from my perspective

....and, it sounds better

 

[HarmonicTHD]

but presumably a more quality power supply can influence performance ?


thanks raif71, for suggesting there may be some plausible possibility for hearing a difference

if i am no closer to an explanation (apart from bias), does the presence of the famous ess hump in the khadas readings, and its absence in the e70 readings make diddlysquat difference to what i might hear ?

i appreciate the experienced responses of the forum members as i have no formal training in the electronics involved, but i am listening

Well engineered amps and DACs are agnostic to power supplies (hint: high PSRR) of course within limits. Of course commercial interest and bad engineering might exceed those limits. In general I would say your are good with the supply for the gear recommended here and it is not something to worry about as the tests show here.

In order to say for sure you would have to be more specific about the DAC/amp and the power supply.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

In terms of sound quality, I don't disagree. That doesn't mean different or new DACs might not have useful features that provide an upgraded overall experience, but better sound quality typically shouldn't be an expectation unless the DAC being replaced is broken (sometimes by design) or poorly chosen.

This is one of the reasons I bought my Ares II. It replaced my Topping d10s in my main system. Does it sound better? I don't know, I honestly haven't done an A/B. It does sound objectively excellent, so I'm keeping it. It also has things I like better about its literal design/appearance, and technical design that I like.

 

[SIY]

Well engineered amps and DACs are agnostic to power supplies (hint: high PSRR) of course within limits. Of course commercial interest and bad engineering might exceed those limits. In general I would say your are good with the supply for the gear recommended here and it is not something to worry about as the tests show here.

In order to say for sure you would have to be more specific about the DAC/amp and the power supply.

The late great Dave Kimber used to say, "One only finds significant performance and design issues in equipment that is very, very cheap or very, very expensive."

 

[Moderate Dionysianism]

I honestly haven't done an A/B. It does sound objectively excellent

ohh that's the ultimate combo!

 

[Mart68]

Of course a terrible power supply will affect sound as will effect the way a component works. Can a 'better' power supply improve sound? Have a listen.

why would anyone buy (or make) a DAC with a 'terrible' power supply?

As it happens I have 2 here, one runs off a mobile phone charger, the other has two linear power supplies. I cannot distinguish between them.

I have heard very subtle differences between DACs, not enough that I considered them important, plus that was not blind testing so I was not only listening but looking too. And therein likes the problem (for the punter, anyway, for those selling multi-thousand pound DACs it's a positive boon).

 

[J Ratcliffe]

I know the ESS hump often exists, but at the levels in which it shows up, I’d assert it is an inaudible difference between DACs outside of the test lab.

It absolutely is not. If that's what you think then you really ought to listen to more DACs.

 

[SIY]

It absolutely is not. If that's what you think then you really ought to listen to more DACs.

Do you have any evidence of its audibility?

 

[J Ratcliffe]

Do you have any evidence of its audibility?

Yes. My ears.

 

[Trell]

Yes. My ears.

I think he had something more substantial than your ears in mind.

 

[SIY]

Yes. My ears.

Could you describe the controls and experimental setup you used to ensure that the sound was what you were perceiving?

 

[Mart68]

It absolutely is not. If that's what you think then you really ought to listen to more DACs.

Even assuming you did these comparisons double blind and level matched (which I bet you didn't) all that would demonstrate is that there was a perceivable difference. You can't definitively say from that test what the technical reason for that difference was.

I think you need to listen to more DACs but with some basic controls applied. I don't think you will be so sure of your assertion after doing that.

 

[BDWoody]

It absolutely is not. If that's what you think then you really ought to listen to more DACs.

Uh huh.