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Delta-sigma vs “Multibit”: what’s the big deal?

SIY

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Esotechnik

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Where can I see a comparison of the temporal accuracy of different types of DACs?
With the fact that the APx555 has a high-bandwidth SAR channel.




Multibit DACs has minimal settling time and sample cross-correlation!!!






MSB_time.png

poorly-run AI.
English is not my native language.

P.S. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hi-fi-audio-signal-chain-no-more-sigma-delta.747265/
 
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SIY

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English is not my native language.
That's the least of your problems. Random irrelevant cut and paste in place of basic understanding is a much bigger issue.
 

BDWoody

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audio2design

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Music is a random signal, not a sine wave.
The pulses (samples) must be independent of each other.
The weak results of delta-sigma converters in real tests (music signal) indicate the imperfection of your methods and criteria.
For example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/delay-distortion

Quoting articles to people who develop, write and publish far more sophisticated stuff is not going to endear you .... Oh by the way, your top performer, the PCM4222, is delta sigma.
 

Gorgonzola

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not an expert in engineering, but from what I’m gathering from others outside here, “multibit” is supposed to be better because it “preserves the original samples”... but if said “multibit” design distorts the signal, wouldn’t that mean that it also isn’t really good at preserving the original signal in the first place?

and delta-sigma is supposedly inferior because it’s a simulation... but then what’s so bad about a very well executed simulation?

based on this, wouldn’t the implementation of both design types and the design as a whole matter more than whether or not one is “delta-sigma” or “multibit”?

just a horse sense take on this, lol
I can only say that I replaced my Schiit Gungnir Multibit with at Topping DX7s. Topping sounded at least as good -- for 1/3 the price. :oops:

Mind you, I was able to sell the Gungnir in under an hour on Canuck Audiomart for very good price. :) The guy told me had the GMb before, sold it, regretted it, and was very glad to get a replacement. :rolleyes: Everybody ended up happy. :cool:
 

audio2design

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ESO had been spreading his unique brand of wrong for some time:


 

pkane

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Music is a random signal, not a sine wave.
The pulses must be independent of each other.

That would violate a mathematical proof that's been around for 100 years or so. No random signals in audio, just a collection of sine-waves, regardless of what product marketing says. If you disagree, file a complaint with Mr. Shannon, Nyquist, Whittaker, Kotelnikov, et al., maybe they can retract their papers ;)

http://ict.open.ac.uk/classics/1.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20100208112344/http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee104/shannonpaper.pdf
https://bayes.wustl.edu/Manual/CertainTopicsInTelegraphTransmissionTheory.pdf
https://zenodo.org/record/1428702/files/article.pdf
 
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mocenigo

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I can only say that I replaced my Schiit Gungnir Multibit with at Topping DX7s. Topping sounded at least as good -- for 1/3 the price. :oops:

Mind you, I was able to sell the Gungnir in under an hour on Canuck Audiomart for very good price. :) The guy told me had the GMb before, sold it, regretted it, and was very glad to get a replacement. :rolleyes: Everybody ended up happy. :cool:

I also replaced my (R2R) Soekris DAC1541 with a (multibit Sigma-Delta) Topping D90 (no MQA, no SE) and a Monoprice THX 887 Headamp (while it was on a special offer) and I even had 200EUR more money in the end. Apart from an improved noise level and a smoother sound, through the amplifier and loudspeakers the difference was not huge but the improvement through the headphones was simply momentous. This said, the Soekris was still a great DAC.
 

andymok

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A "pulse" is not a valid audio signal, so why would you want to reproduce it accurately and what does accurately mean? Audio is band-limited, as is the ear, but a pulse is not. And, as far as I know, the goal of a DAC is to reproduce audio signals for human consumption.

I think you need to explain a bit more why you're mentioning DF/Gearspace or AKM chips, it's not clear to me how these are related to the topic.
why not? synthesizers are like arb waveform gen these days, and percussion = impulse by definition
 

audio2design

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Google definitely not working as well as before anymore.

Always wish to see a waveform captured from a scope, analog’s the best, so we also know the frontend isn’t limited.

And how is "analog the best" .... meaning what exactly? The plots shown were digital, but more than enough bandwidth. Perhaps I was too subtle with my 0 mass, infinite force drumstick comment. The mass is obviously not 0, and the drumstick does not exert infinite force, hence there is an acceleration time.
 
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