Dedicated PCI/PCIE digital audio transport

[garbulky]

No, Im just aware of the pitfalls of sighted listening which is what you have based your decisions upon. I cant bring you an example right now of a DBT that shows difference between connections - but I'm not sure what that would demonstrate to you if I did. You could simply perform this comparison yourself if you had genuine interest in the result

The point here is you are the one seeking to spend money on a new card because you apparently want "better clocks" - this is a technical improvement, one which you believe will provide a corresponding subjective improvement. However the technical solution to that problem is to use a USB connection which would utilise the DACs internal clock. Yet you dont want this.

So if you want what you want, regardless of any other evidence or advice - "More importantly it's the one I choose " - then yes it very much sounds like dogma. One has to shrug ones shoulders and walk away and leave you to it

I was trying to tell you that in my posts. I was interested in something specific.

 

[amirm]

Let's not try to convert OP guys. We have said enough for others interested in the information to get something out of it. Specific goal of converting OP is beyond reach and we shouldn't keep trying to do that.

 

[garbulky]

BTW I've never heard an AES connection or something with an improved clock (that's not USB). I think it would be interesting to experience though I don't have a lot of hope for it to sound different. My Asus Xonar Essence ST which I did use did has a jitter reduction chip on it of which I have no idea if it was related to the SPDIF output or just the DAC portion.

Of interest the DC-1 has an ASRC that preserves the original sample rate before passing it to the DAC. But also more interestingly it is asynchronous on all inputs. So if that means what I think it means, that's an advantage if we are using a non-USB connection like AES.

 

[March Audio]

I was trying to tell you that in my posts. I was interested in something specific.

As Amir alludes to above the commentary wasnt really for your benefit

 

[garbulky]

As Amir alludes to above the commentary wasnt really for your benefit

I have a hard time seeing that was the "real purpose".
But..if that's really what you were doing, and I'm intepreting that as the entire conversation we've had, I think that's pretty crass. No problems with "having educational commentary for others". If people can gain from a conversation, let them.
But when I have a conversation, I assume the person wants a conversation not whatever weird game you think you are playing. "Wasn't really for your benefit." Then why are you even talking to me? Is that even close to normal interactions?

 

[amirm]

BTW I've never heard an AES connection or something with an improved clock (that's not USB).

When I get a chance I will do a test of AES vs S/PDIF to see if there is a measured difference.

 

[garbulky]

When I get a chance I will do a test of AES vs S/PDIF to see if there is a measured difference.

I would be interested. Thanks.
So if I'm correct AES is balanced right? Like there is some sort of distortion cancelling benefit to it?
Does this mean that to get that distortion measurement you would need a primary AES balanced source? Or would a USB to AES source provide the same measurements as a primary balanced AES source.

 

[amirm]

It is balanced. That just means it won't create ground loops/currents. It also allows longer distances which is not of value in consumer applications.

So no, it doesn't automatically mean there is lower distortion. It is a digital interface and its effects are complicated.

But yes, you obviously need AES interface at both end.

 

[March Audio]

I would be interested. Thanks.
So if I'm correct AES is balanced right? Like there is some sort of distortion cancelling benefit to it?
Does this mean that to get that distortion measurement you would need a primary AES balanced source? Or would a USB to AES source provide the same measurements as a primary balanced AES source.

Its not about distortion cancelling, the higher voltage levels and balanced transmission minimizes noise pickup which is helpful for long runs in a professional environment. There is no benefit with AES in a domestic environment.

 

[March Audio]

I have a hard time seeing that was the "real purpose".
But..if that's really what you were doing, and I'm intepreting that as the entire conversation we've had, I think that's pretty crass. No problems with "having educational commentary for others". If people can gain from a conversation, let them.
But when I have a conversation, I assume the person wants a conversation not whatever weird game you think you are playing. "Wasn't really for your benefit." Then why are you even talking to me? Is that even close to normal interactions?

Its no game. You clearly dont want to listen to the advice given by myself and others in good faith, but other readers may well learn from it. Why are you continuing to ask questions if you are just going to do your own thing anyway? Thats just wasting peoples time. You have just been told by two people that AES is of no benefit in a domestic environment. Are you still going to persu an AES connection?

 

[March Audio]

It is balanced. That just means it won't create ground loops/currents. It also allows longer distances which is not of value in consumer applications.

So no, it doesn't automatically mean there is lower distortion. It is a digital interface and its effects are complicated.

But yes, you obviously need AES interface at both end.

Many SPDIF connections are transformer coupled so eliminate the loop issue

 

[garbulky]

Its no game. You clearly dont want to listen to the advice given by myself and others in good faith, but other readers may well learn from it. Why are you continuing to ask questions if you are just going to do your own thing anyway? Thats just wasting peoples time. You have just been told by two people that AES is of no benefit in a domestic environment. Are you still going to persu an AES connection?

I don't think you really understand my motivations or behavior or why I ask questions. I really do plainly spell them out. I also haven't asked for the advice y'all are giving me. I asked specific questions. Some of the advice given isn't related to that. I suggest stop worrying about what I plan to do or don't. Let me worry about that.

Amir's responses are spot on because I actually asked about that and I appreciate his comments. Now note I didn't ask whether I should be pursuing AES or not. Neither did he tell me to do so and act all annoyed that I didn't.

If you are here waiting for me to change my behavior or plans in regards to audio, based on unsolicited advice, well it's not happening. I am not here to be schooled or told how to behave regarding audio.

You say you are not playing a game, so I guess I'll have to believe you. But I hope when we have a conversation there isn't some outward agenda and would like the conversation actually directed at each other and not the pretense of direction. I take people at face value by what they say and intend to have honest friendly conversations and not unusual interactions like this. If it continues, I'll just have to stop which is unfortunate because I thought we were getting along reasonably until that post.

 

[March Audio]

No I dont think we do understand your motivations because they dont actually make sense. I dont think you will change your behaviour, as Amir said thats beyond reach, but the information here might just stop others making the same mistake and maybe even wasting money on persuing pointless routes because of some mistaken subjective conclusions.

 

[garbulky]

No I dont think we do understand your motivations because they dont actually make sense. I dont think you will change your behaviour, as Amir said thats beyond reach, but the information here might just stop others making the same mistake and maybe even wasting money on persuing pointless routes because of some mistaken subjective conclusions.

So it's not a conversation then. It's something entirely different. I'm not interested in being part of that. If you feel like having a conversation without all these tacked on things, let me know.

 

[Wombat]

I don't think you really understand my motivations or behavior or why I ask questions. I really do plainly spell them out. I also haven't asked for the advice y'all are giving me. I asked specific questions. Some of the advice given isn't related to that. I suggest stop worrying about what I plan to do or don't. Let me worry about that.

Amir's responses are spot on because I actually asked about that and I appreciate his comments. Now note I didn't ask whether I should be pursuing AES or not. Neither did he tell me to do so and act all annoyed that I didn't.

If you are here waiting for me to change my behavior or plans in regards to audio, based on unsolicited advice, well it's not happening. I am not here to be schooled or told how to behave regarding audio.

You say you are not playing a game, so I guess I'll have to believe you. But I hope when we have a conversation there isn't some outward agenda and would like the conversation actually directed at each other and not the pretense of direction. I take people at face value by what they say and intend to have honest friendly conversations and not unusual interactions like this. If it continues, I'll just have to stop which is unfortunate because I thought we were getting along reasonably until that post.

"You don't understand me"(my precis). Well, explain yourself more clearly.

 

[March Audio]

So it's not a conversation then. It's something entirely different. I'm not interested in being part of that. If you feel like having a conversation without all these tacked on things, let me know.

Its not a conversation if you are going to ignore everything that multiple people converse with you about. Im not interested in that either, its a waste of time. Its not "tacked on", the information discussed is directly relevant to your questions and statements. Dont forget that you have stated that USB doesnt sound as good a spdif (generally). This is factually incorrect and should be commented upon.

 

[garbulky]

Well I think this thread has run its course for me. I look forward to seeing Amir's measurements if and when he gets a chance to do them.

 

[Wombat]

Well I think this thread has run its course for me. I look forward to seeing Amir's measurements if and when he gets a chance to do them.

We will see if they meet your expectations.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Apologies if this is in the wrong section. I was wondering if y'all would be able to assist me. I've been searching for a long time and I simply cannot find what I'm looking for.
I have several inputs on my DC-1 DAC. One is BNC and the other is AES.
I am a 2 channel purist and I try to buy separates. My goal is to find a pretty PCI/PCI-expresssolid digital audio (only) transport. Preferrably one that does AES and/maybe BNC. Once again - PCI. And - TWO CHANNEL. Dedicated for stereo use.

Now here's somethings I don't want.
- No USB solutions. No USB to AES converters etc. I know, it sounds limiting.
- No DACs onboard (if possible)
- No super expensive cards. I'm hoping for between $100-200. I will consider if it is $500 but that's really stretching it for me.
- I would like to avoid professional RME type cards with huge 32 channel breakout cables. I want basically something meant for two channel audio. Not something meant for 500 channel audio.

After much searching I found a Musiland Digital Times PCI transport for $60 which gave me a BNC output which I'm using now. But considering it's already discontinued and I had to go through some janky websites to get the correct driver for it, I would prefer to see some more options.

So many DACs have AES and BNC inputs and I just don't udnerstand why I can't seem to find more PCI options that are not USB? Any help would be appreciated.


One AES output.
PCI/PCI-e connection for a PC
Preferrably high quality clocks etc

@garbulky , would this new Sonifex card be of interest to you?

http://sonifex.co.uk/soundcards/pc-ad2.shtml

http://sonifex.co.uk/company/logos-images/handbooks/pc-ad2.pdf

Sonifex is a broadcast oriented firm, which means adequate specs and reliability.

 

[Jimster480]

@garbulky , would this new Sonifex card be of interest to you?

http://sonifex.co.uk/soundcards/pc-ad2.shtml

http://sonifex.co.uk/company/logos-images/handbooks/pc-ad2.pdf

Sonifex is a broadcast oriented firm, which means adequate specs and reliability.

Looks goood!