Dedicated PCI/PCIE digital audio transport

[garbulky]

@garbulky , would this new Sonifex card be of interest to you?

http://sonifex.co.uk/soundcards/pc-ad2.shtml

http://sonifex.co.uk/company/logos-images/handbooks/pc-ad2.pdf

Sonifex is a broadcast oriented firm, which means adequate specs and reliability.

Hi! Thank you!
Though this isn't exactly what I was looking for (it's not dedicated digital only and it has a break out cable), but it's actually close.
Here's what I like:

- it has a two channel AES output!! Not 32 channels.... 2 channel!
- It uses PCIe! (Not USB)

And I've not found that anywhere else. Now the tough part is figuring out where to buy this thing. Amazon didin't have it and neither did ebay.
Oh darn okay, well looks like this card is a bit too pricey for me running at 500 euros
http://www.visuals.co.uk/5302549-pcad2.html
Maybe the price will come down someday.

 

[restorer-john]

I use M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 PCI cards. RCA L/R in and out, SPDIF in and out (not AES) and Midi that I don't use. They are fabulous cards. AKM A/D D/A and NE5532AN analogue.

You can pick them up for $20-$30. They will happily run on XP/Vista/7/8/10 with the last of the Vista 64 bit drivers

 

[Wombat]

I use M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 PCI cards. RCA L/R in and out, SPDIF in and out (not AES) and Midi that I don't use. They are fabulous cards. AKM A/D D/A and NE5532AN analogue.

You can pick them up for $20-$30. They will happily run on XP/Vista/7/8/10 with the last of the Vista 64 bit drivers

Help. Where can I get one at that price? I checked Ebay and they are somewhat more pricey.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Help. Where can I get one at that price? I checked Ebay and they are somewhat more pricey.

I've got one kicking around somewhere. But shipping to Australia is going to be prohibitive.

I kept it as long as I did for the SPDIF in and out. Otherwise this was like the second most jittery device I've run across. Might just be my one card, but it is full of jitter on the analog outs and ins.

I think the Asus Essence cards have in and out on some models. Also an excellent high performance spec for ADC and DAC. 124 db snr.

 

[garbulky]

I've got one kicking around somewhere. But shipping to Australia is going to be prohibitive.

I kept it as long as I did for the SPDIF in and out. Otherwise this was like the second most jittery device I've run across. Might just be my one card, but it is full of jitter on the analog outs and ins.

I think the Asus Essence cards have in and out on some models. Also an excellent high performance spec for ADC and DAC. 124 db snr.

A FYI on the Asus Xonar Essence ST (not sure about STX) regarding the ADC. It does have stereo input. But importantly it is not a full scale input. It is not line level. It is half. I encountered this issue when I was recording on Audacity. The most I could get the ADC was to halfway. While on my other input units like the Behringer UCA 202 and standalone tascam units provided a full scale input. I'm not sure if I encountered clipping issues due to this or not. But I think I encountered issues due to it in the recording process.

 

[Blumlein 88]

A FYI on the Asus Xonar Essence ST (not sure about STX) regarding the ADC. It does have stereo input. But importantly it is not a full scale input. It is not line level. It is half. I encountered this issue when I was recording on Audacity. The most I could get the ADC was to halfway. While on my other input units like the Behringer UCA 202 and standalone tascam units provided a full scale input. I'm not sure if I encountered clipping issues due to this or not. But I think I encountered issues due to it in the recording process.

They list the input for full scale as 2 volts. So are you saying you couldn't get to that point? Also perhaps that was due to some settings in the software mixer.

Stereophile has done measurements of both the ST and STX. It doesn't meet the claimed 124 db SNR, but does in fact do well especially in the STX version. The Maudio 24/96 isn't this good.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-ststx-soundcards-measurements

 

[garbulky]

They list the input for full scale as 2 volts. So are you saying you couldn't get to that point? Also perhaps that was due to some settings in the software mixer.

Stereophile has done measurements of both the ST and STX. It doesn't meet the claimed 124 db SNR, but does in fact do well especially in the STX version. The Maudio 24/96 isn't this good.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-ststx-soundcards-measurements

Yep. In Audacity the max it will output is to the 0.5 setting rather than 1.0 . If I had to guess that means it does 1 volt. It's not an issue due to audacity settings AFAIK. It frustrated me quite a bit for some reason I can't remember. I think it had to do with clipping live recordings much easier.

 

[yummy]

lynx two, or e22 which is newer

 

[Jimster480]

lynx two, or e22 which is newer

$700!? Wow thats a big number

 

[wyup]

I haven't read all the thread but I find this interesting and I'd like to give my 2c:
USB and SPDIF are as good as precise is the source clock for the signal. Async USB is not the solution to jitter or cleanest path either because it takes the from the USB input signal, which may poorly clocked and dirty from a computer. However good the dac's async USB clock is, probably you won't be able to clean or dissect a already dirty signal completely. The best to me would be to start with a clean usb/spdif signal. How? Using a custom, externally powered pci bridge the likes of Pink Faun, Paul Pang (or just a Asus Xonar XD pci card). Doesn't matter usb or spdif. And then the dac, otherwise you'll need a real good usb imprementation to filter out usb noise, ground and jitter, such as RMI ADI-2. If you have good clocked spdif signal from source, I guess you don't have to reclock it again like in a async usb. There may be a point with good dacs out there that could benefit from coax input instead of usb when not optimally implemented (Schiit Modi MB?).

 

[Vincent Kars]

USB and SPDIF are as good as precise is the source clock for the signal.

No, this is true for SPDIF but not for USB using asynchronous synchronisation.
In case of async USB the DAC has a free running clock.
The DAC is in charge of the amount of data send by the host hence don't have to adept its speed to the host.
What you are referring too is a very dated and obsolete technique used by the very first USB DACs.
They derived their clock from the 1 kHz framerate.

Bit more detail: https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html

 

[wyup]

No, this is true for SPDIF but not for USB using asynchronous synchronisation.
In case of async USB the DAC has a free running clock.
The DAC is in charge of the amount of data send by the host hence don't have to adept its speed to the host.
What you are referring too is a very dated and obsolete technique used by the very first USB DACs.
They derived their clock from the 1 kHz framerate.

Bit more detail: https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html

Thanks Vincent for your answer and knowledge shared on your webpage.

I agree on superiority of Async protocol, but I'd like to ask: to what extent may a async low oscillator dac clock processor recover bitperfect clocked stream from a non optimal computer usb controller buffered signal? I mean, for example, inaccuracies from the computer buffer (inaccurate usb controller clock, latency in the processor thread) or noise from the computer (groundloop, emi, polluted power) that might confuse the dac in separating the pulses? I am no expert, but isn't async mode analogous to a freeway toll chechpoint bar or a factory line that separates cars in a timely manner? what if the cars are not clear if red (0) or blue (1) because the painting (pulses) is distorted by noise? May there be wrong usb data in the buffer associated to the usb controller jitter in its clock?

I guess dedicated usb cards like Jcat with better oscillators for usb controller and clean power may give more accurate buffer signal for async mode to work with (bit accuracy and pulse clarity). Or it is really pc clock and power agnostic? If in async mode low oscillator clock is important to minimize jitter, so will be the source usb controller clocked data, won't it? We have two clocks working next to the other. May we assume that the computer usb data signal is perfectly timed and clear to work with?

Thanks again and sorry if I am wrong or explained earlier.

 

[Vincent Kars]

No clock without jitter but observe that driving a bus with a clock be it USB or Ethernet and driving the DA conversion works out completely different.
The computer bus simple works, if not we would have a lot of errors.
Hence no reason to worry about bits, jitter or even noise because this is about digital signal transmission and it is rock solid.
In case of DA conversion you can have skirting and side bands in the analog out.
A total different phenomenon.

The only real issue at the DAC side is noise.
A well designed DAC is sufficiently isolated to not being disturbed by external sources including PCs.
Only with low quality products, additional isolation might work.

Likewise you have audiophile switches today.
Of course with better clocking, femto clocks!
The average audiophile knows that lower jitter=better.
Of course this has no effect on the streamer because digital doesn’t work that way.
Have a look here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...el-bonn-n8-audio-grade-ethernet-switch.12360/

 

[Robem]

I understand that this is an old thread and I don't normally like to resurrect but I have a similar requirement and came across this product that might be of interest. It has multiple interface options that include AES/EBU and BNC/COAX along with additional clocks. I came across this product (and this thread) while looking for a PCIe SPDIF for a streamer that I am building a parts list for. https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/bridge/45-2903-spdif-bridge.html